Have you ever heard that you can’t create a $1 million business off of a smaller offer? That simply isn’t true and today’s guest is proof of that.
In this episode of Art of Online Business, I sat down with Jessica Berk from Awesome Little Sleepers to talk about how she did that in her niche within a niche. In this case study, we talk about how Jessica runs an evergreen funnel to her course and gets better sales than when she offered live launches.
In this episode, she’s here to share exactly what she does, how she does it, and how she got to where she is today. You’ll also get some behind-the-scenes coaching so you can see how I am working with Jessica to solidify her business so that she can scale it even more.
When her 3 year old moved to a big girl bed and started refusing to go to bed and waking up at all hours of the night, she felt like she had a newborn again. She and her husband were miserable! She decided she couldn’t survive like this.
Everyone talks about sleep struggles when you have a baby, but no one was talking about the sleep struggles that happen when kids get bigger!
So, she learned everything she could about toddler development and behavior and got certified as a sleep coach.
She’s spent the last 7 years perfecting a foolproof framework, the REST Method™, to turn kids into independent sleepers.
And she’s successfully helped thousands of parents with even the most strong-willed kids get them to bed happily before 8pm and sleeping soundly 10 – 12 hours through the night – with no wake ups.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- Why it’s so important to know your audience
- Why she decided to launch a course
When she decided to switch to an evergreen model - Why you need to have your audience at the front of your mind
- The impact her course has enabled her to make on her audience
- The foundation we are working on strengthening
- Jessica’s conversion rates
- Tips for using ad data to make decisions
Links & Resources:
- The Art of Online Business website
- DM me on Instagram
- Visit my YouTube channel
- The Art of Online Business clips on YouTube
- Full episodes of The Art of Online Business Podcast on YouTube
- The Art of Online Business Podcast website
- Check out my Accelerator coaching program
*Disclosure: I only recommend products I use and love and all opinions expressed here are my own. This post may contain affiliate links that at no additional cost to you, I may earn a small commission.
Jessica Berk’s Links:
- Visit Jessica’s website
- Check out Jessica’s masterclass
- Follow Jessica on Facebook
- Follow Jessica on Instagram
- Follow Jessica on YouTube
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So, Jessica, I was told this week I was having a conversation with somebody this week. And that person who has a very similarly priced offer to you was told recently that you cannot generate $1,000,000 in their business with that one type of offer. What would you say to that person?
I would say that is 100% not true, and I am living proof of that.
All right. What’s up, my friends? Welcome to today’s episode of The Art of Online Business podcast. I’m Rick Moretti, and I wanted to share a case study with you here today. Jessica Burke from Awesome Little Sleepers. She helps families with their toddler or young child’s sleep issues. And I love this niche, not only because I’m a toddler dad. Mine is about to turn four when I’m recording this literally a week from today, which just blows my. Blows my mind. But, you know, I love the niche because this is a this is a like a niche within a niche. And there are a ton of sleep coaches, etc. for infants and newborns and all that stuff, but not necessarily in the in the toddler space. And Jessica Burke has built an amazing business. And why I wanted to share this with you specifically and bring Jessica to the podcast here to share what she’s doing is she’s created $1,000,000 business on a $297 offer, period. This is her one offer. And as you’re going to hear when I start to start the conversation with Jessica literally earlier this week on I’m recording this, I was told by somebody that they were told that, you know, you can’t make $1,000,000 on a 197 to 97, whatever, you know, something that’s below $500. And it just you know, this is simply not true.
And what Jessica does in her business is she runs an evergreen funnel to her course and she lied, launched it for a long time, or business is only a couple of years old and she gets better sales from her evergreen funnel than when she was live launching. And she’s going to break everything down for you here today and tell you exactly what she does and how she does it and how she got to where she is today. And later in this conversation, we do a little coaching and I share some sort of behind the scenes of what I’m helping Jessica with right now, because when she came to me, she wanted to scale this business, but there were some missing parts in her business that needed solidifying before we can even think about and consider scaling. So I talk all about that later in this conversation. So without further ado, let’s do it. Let’s go hang out with Jessica Burke from Awesome Little Sleepers. So, Jessica, I was told this week I was having a conversation with somebody this week, and that person who has a very similarly priced offer to you was told recently that you cannot generate $1,000,000 in their business with that one type of offer. What would you say to that person?
I would say that is 100% not true, and I am living proof of that.
It’s a part of it’s kind of like what? It’s one of the things that frustrates me about the online space is that there are these generalities that are made and it’s like, Oh no, in order to do this, you have to do whatever. You know, fill in the blank.
Yeah. You have to have a high ticket offer. Yep. Yep. Yeah, of course. Yes. Everybody tells you that. Yeah.
And it just it’s I mean, sometimes that’s like and what I’m hearing more recently is something about email marketing and like, you can’t sell until after a certain period of time. And I was like, well, wait. Like, no, no, no. And I’m starting off our conversation like this because you are living proof that doing things your way, number one, with a, quote, lower ticket offer can be extremely successful 100%.
Absolutely. And I think it really has to do with knowing your audience. So I do think that’s key. So you can have rules. I know that people espouse about high ticket offers or, you know, not selling an email after a certain period of time. You know, how can those things be generally true? Like they can’t before? It all has to do with your audience and what they’re going to be receptive to.
Yeah. And so what is your offer? How do you help people? Talk to us about that.
Yeah. Yeah. So I am a toddler and preschool sleep coach. So if you’ve ever heard of a sleep coach before, most sleep coaches focus on younger kids, babies getting your five, six, seven month old to finally sleep through the night for the first time. But I learned firsthand when my daughter was three, the whole new kind of challenges that come up once your kid is out of the crib and into their toddler bed or big kid bed, and then all of a sudden, you know, they’re three years old. They have this kind of newfound freedom because they’re not confined in the crib anymore. And my daughter, who had always been a great sleeper, like all of a sudden with stay in bed, she just kept running out of her room after I would leave. And I’m like, what? What are you doing? Stay in there. And then, you know, I’d wake up in the middle of the night and she would be just standing in front of my face or she’d be waking me up. And I’m like, Why are you waking up? Like, it was crazy. It was like I had a newborn again. And so I knew that once I figured my way out of that disastrous situation to get myself sleeping again, I knew that I could help other families do the same thing. Because, yeah, dealing with these older kids, no one talks about how tough it can be and how things can like change on a dime.
Yeah, I mean, when you and I first met, I was like this I love this niche because to your point, I know everybody’s dealing with like, you know, the newborns and the babies, but not toddler. And as a dad of a toddler, Maya turns for a week from today as we’re recording this. I know what that’s like now. Yes. Sleep patterns change and getting up like I’m knocking on every piece of wood of my desk right now. Maya is a good sleeper. Now, getting her to sleep is is one thing, but like, once she’s asleep, she does really, really well. And so you. It worked for you. Then what? What happened after that? You’re like, Wait, if I can do this, I can help other people do the same thing.
Yeah, Yeah. So I got certified as a sleep coach. That was something that I really needed to do for myself. I wanted to kind of get a I wanted to get educated and make sure that just as this process worked for me, I wanted to really understand it at a larger level. So I got certified as a pediatric sleep consultant and then my first step. Was really I worked with I worked one on one with families forever. After I got certified, I just kind of started my own website, also little sleepers as my business. And so I, I started my website and found some people locally and I worked one on one with families for a long time and really with all ages of kids. And it wasn’t until a few years ago that I decided to really niche down into working with just these older kids because of exactly the experience I was, I was telling you about. You know, once I figured out how to figure it out for myself, then I was like, okay, there’s a need for this out there. So this is kind of actually first where I got introduced to you, Rick, was through another program that I had that I had purchased, and you had provided some Facebook ads training inside of that program, and that was probably back in 2019. And that’s when I really started to change my messaging, to just focus on on this niche for older kids and start to put out some, you know, lead magnets and free things for people to get to start to really build my email list of exhausted, poor toddler and preschool families that need a lot of help.
Yeah, so you create it. So you were doing the one on one. First you created the website, started building your your email list. At what point did you decide to create a course around it?
So this was back in, in 2020. So through, through the years, you know, I started as I had niched down especially, I started booking out on my 100 ones and I was booking out and I was complaining to my husband about how I was working all the time. And then I was like, You know what? I think I just I can’t take on all these people. And he’s like, No, no, no. You raise the price. Like, Oh, okay, we’ll try that. Yeah. So I raised the price of my one on one consulting and that I was still booking out. And then it got to the point where I was turning people away and that didn’t feel good. I mean, I got into this business to help families with a really difficult situation. And so turning people away was not what I wanted to do. And, you know, I realized that in all these calls, I was I was on the phone all day with parents. And it’s like even though everybody’s problems are a little bit different, they’re they’re very much the same. The baseline is the same. There’s challenges of kids going to bed. There’s challenges with kids waking up overnight and there’s challenges with kids waking up early in the morning. Yeah. Now the causes of those things can be different and unique, but at the core, everyone’s facing really the same problems. And I noticed that I was really repeating myself a lot during the day, talking to all these families. And so that’s when the idea I got the idea like I could actually put all this knowledge into a course. And make it available to even more people. And that solves my problem of of having to turn people away. Now, I can help as many people as me, you know, as needed, as need help.
Yeah. So did you just start launching it? Like, how did you start selling it?
So let’s see, I launched it. We’re about to as a recording this. We’re about to come up on the two year anniversary of the course, and I launched it in January 1st, 2021. I spent all of like Christmas 2020, like locked in my room, recording everything. I launched it and to my email list for a really low price. I think I had maybe 30 or 40 people, you know, enroll. And then I started doing live webinar launches, and I started that in February of 2021. And it was scary doing these live launches. But actually the first the first live launch that I did didn’t quite go as as planned. I didn’t have as many conversions as I wanted, so I kind of had to go back to the drawing board. But once I figured out kind of which format of the webinar kind of worked and sold the best, I was doing live launching for really the first half of 2021 basically every month. And I was pretty much doing it all in my own.
So what were you doing this just your email list at this point?
No, I started running ads too, so that’s what I had learned from you back in 2019. Yeah. So I was doing I was doing ads myself, so I was spending some money on ads and my email list.
How big was your email list at this point?
I want to say there was maybe 3000 people like back when I first started in 2021.
Okay. So and I just want to point out real quick, you said when you say back then, it sounds like so long ago, but it’s really only two years ago. Right. But but in this like this environment that two years, the past couple of years, let’s face it, feels like seven years, right?
True.
So you started doing pretty much monthly webinars at that point. How many webinars did you do live until you felt really comfortable with like how they were going, how they were converting people, responding to them, etc..
So, you know, each time I launched, once I put it basically once a month or so, and every time I launched, I probably did seven or eight actual webinars during that launch. And so I felt like I was getting pretty good at it. You know, I would you know, I loved it. I loved answering the questions and having the engagement with people. So I would say, you know, I was pretty comfortable. I was pretty comfortable with do it with doing the live launches. And it was it was going pretty well. But it was I mean, it was a ton of work. It was just me. I was running the ads. I was doing the email. I was doing the tech setup. I was running the webinars. I mean, it was a little bananas. So. Yeah.
And you were doing 7 to 8 webinars during the launch period each month?
I think so. I mean, maybe like five, 5 to 8 or something. I’m trying to remember back because it was like maybe a four day launch period and I would do one or two a day, you know, to have different kind of time slots for parents.
And so how many months did you do that before? You were like, Oh, yeah, this is pretty dialed in now. I don’t know that I ever really realized that. I think you’re kind of leading to like, how do they decide to Evergreen.
Well, I should probably caveat, I should probably add to that. Or did you just get to a point where, like, I’m done like launching like this? You know, I’ve done so many like, I’m done with this.
Well, it wasn’t really either. It was more of a time constraint because it was summer and then my kids were out of school. Yeah. And so we’re coming up on into July and I was like, okay, I can’t like, this is taking so much time and having my kids home. It was just more difficult. And we were going on vacation and I was like, Well, what’s going to happen? Like this thing? This is sell in less time because I was doing a cart open and a cart close. Yeah, very traditional live launch strategy. And so I was like, okay, it’s the summer. Like, I guess I’ll just I’ll turn this kind of on Evergreen. I’ve heard it, heard about that. Like, I’ll just try that. And then like in August when we can’t go back to school, I’ll just get back to it. That was my thought. My thought was like, here’s a Band-Aid for a couple of months.
And so how much was the offer when you were launching it that way?
Well, so this is the one thing I like change. I mean, I’ve really tested a lot of things, and I think this has been to my benefit because I’ve tested prices, I’ve tested bonuses, I’ve tested how I’m going to support families in the back end, because that’s always been really important to me. So I think in the beginning, my my price ranged from I think when I first started selling, it was like 170 or something. And so, you know, it’s kind of fluctuated, but now it’s now it’s sold between 297 and 497.
Okay. And you said supporting members on the families on the back end. What do you what do you mean by that?
So like I said, all these sleep problems have a lot of similarities. But there are there are nuances. And I think it’s reassuring to have some support or, you know, a place to ask questions. It is a DIY course and you don’t necessarily need a place to ask questions because I have a huge, like fake library and lots of lots of support and answers within the course. But I still wanted to give people a chance to ask questions. So. So in the beginning I was even doing like group zoom calls every month. But I was getting so.
Many as part and part of the 177 or whatever price.
Yeah, Yeah. And then I was getting so many people that got a little crazy. I think one time I, I was like 3 hours long and I was like, No one can. This isn’t even helpful. Like, you know, people were on there, but I’m like, This is crazy. This isn’t even useful to people. So I’ve gone through kind of iterations of, of how to support people. And so now the way the course is formatted, I really like it. You get access to a private Facebook community. All the families that are enrolled have access, and that’s become a great place to ask questions. I mean, I’m in there every day answering questions, and other families are also answering questions and giving advice and sharing their experiences. So it’s really like really collaborative. It’s it’s turned into a really great community for ever. They currently they are currently there is no end to to how long they’re in the group.
Okay. All right. Is that going to change?
You know, it may. It may. It’s it is it is such a valuable resource that having it included as part of the course as is. I think it’s something people should have access to for possibly a limited period of time. And then maybe it turns into some type of membership. But, you know, it’s all it’s all it’s all TBD.
Yeah, because what comes up for me there, just like the co chat comes on here, is like, yes, we talked about membership, you know, turning that into a small monthly fee in order to stay in the community and continue to have access there. It could also be something like, Hey, you need to refer one person. You need to refer one family. In order to stay in the community or something like that.
Oh, now that’s an interesting angle because you’re.
Because you just said, like, you’ve created this amazing environment in the Facebook group and they’re helping each other and all this other stuff. And it’s like, all right, cool. Like, I want to keep you in or I want to continue to give you access here. But in order to stay in, you know, we need to either refer one or gift one or something like that to somebody.
Yeah, that’s an interesting angle.
Simple like what comes up for me, As I said, that is like a pyramid scheme, but it’s really not like that’s not the intention, right? The intention is to increase our impact, but yet, hey, you know what? I’m providing this essentially free resource that where you’re in there every day and it’s this amazing community. Now, just to clarify, it is only for paying customers, correct?
It is only for families that have enrolled in the course. Yes. Yes. So so what I like about it is everyone is in there speaking the same language, you know, and it’s great because people are giving advice and they’re parroting exactly what I say in the course. So it’s really Yeah, it’s only for those families.
Okay, cool. And all right. So you decide to. You’re like, All right, it’s summertime. I want to go away on vacation, kids are home, etc., etc.. I’m going to evergreen this, at least for the summer. Like, what did you do? Did you. How did you set that up?
So, gosh. So I sat can’t even I don’t even know if I can think back to them. But I had set it up to to play the the webinar at certain times and allow people to register. And I had ads running to that evergreen funnel at that point. And what I saw was that my sales weren’t impacted that much. In fact, it was a little bit better than when I was live launching.
Hmm.
So when I really got back to work, I, you know, after we were on vacation for a couple of weeks, I was like, okay, wait, there’s something something’s going on here. And then the more I thought about it, you know, I really like I mentioned before, it’s all about knowing your audience. And I think, you know, I’m dealing with families that are exhausted. And I think making this information, making my my my webinar is called My Toddler Sleep Master Class, making my my master class more accessible to people at different times and kind of, you know, not on demand, but like as they need it. Sure. I think that just made more sense for my audience.
Yeah. Giving them more. Yeah. Like you’re serving. You’re leading with the most benefit to them in how they can consume the content.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes. Instead of instead of only only offering this five times once a month, it was available to people.
Yeah. So at this point, this was 2021.
Yes. 2021. Yeah, it was like a lifetime ago.
What kind of revenue were you generating from the live launches? Like how were your conversion rates at that point, do you recall?
I feel like my conversion rates were maybe around two, two and a half percent. I was covering my ad costs and I think my best month I made $20,000, which was amazing. I was like, Oh my God, this is like happening. Like, there’s people. This is a real thing. Like, this is good. So yeah, that was that. That month was very eye opening.
And then when you evergreen it, what did you start to see in terms of conversion?
So at first, I mean, I feel like since then and continues to today, it’s kind of been a process of of tweaking that I’ve still, you know, changed up bonuses. I’ve still changed how I phrase things. I’ve still changed out some questions. I mean, I’ve always kind of been tinkering with it, but now it’s converting at about 4%, which is which is a big difference. But also, you have to remember it runs all the time. So instead of converting at two or 3%, four or five.
Days.
Yeah, for five days now it’s converting at 4% all the time. Yeah.
And so when you set up the going back to the question about when you set the evergreen up, did you look at it kind of like, all right, you know what, I needed a different solution here because, you know, time of the year is different now. The kids are home going on vacation. I’m just going to set this up. Evergreen Was it more of that or was it like, oh, geez, I got to set this up? Evergreen, I’m not sure. How to do this?
No, no. I was like, I’m just going to give this a shot. And I really had no I was totally not tied to the outcome because I thought it was temporary. I really was like, Oh, I’ll just get back to it. In the fall. I was thinking, I need more support to keep doing these live launches. For sure. I was like, okay, I’m going need to hire some people. I was thinking more like that. Like, what kind of people do I need to hire to help these live launches be easier on me in the fall? That was where my head was. My head was never like, And I have a live launch since then.
Yeah.
I don’t like since then. So that was not when I had expected to do so.
And the reason I ask that question is because I hear this all the time and it’s a mindset that’s so fascinating to me is that when people are like, All right, I’m ready to evergreen, it becomes this massive project to them, that setting up the evergreen funnel when oftentimes they’ve been doing something similar to you, Jessica, where you were doing live, like you’ve got the emails written, you’ve got the webinar, you’ve got the post, you know the post webinar, like everything’s there. It’s just like, okay, how can we tweak these things to create an evergreen funnel now? And a big piece of that is like you did Jessica Like you’re doing the webinar a lot and getting better at it and you’re not like, you’re not making people think it’s live, nor during the webinar. You’re like, All right, so you know, like making it feel live when you’re on the webinar. So it’s redoing the webinar that’s actually working, but it’s like, okay, you already have the funnel. Let’s just create the evergreen version of this funnel. It doesn’t have to be this big overwhelming thing that’s like, All right, I’m going to get this live, you know, by the end of the quarter and it’s three months away.
Yes, I think I mean, I think this is a common theme, right, with entrepreneurs. I mean, heck, I’m guilty. I’m as guilty of this as anybody, which is just overcomplicating something. Yeah. And maybe it’s a little bit of the fear of the unknown. Yeah. I mean, maybe it’s a little bit of a fear of the unknown or. You know, or not wanting to break something or whatever. But I don’t think I had those feelings because I never planned for this to be the future. I was like, okay, I’m building the future of my business. Like, don’t mess this up, Jessica. I was like, okay, well, I got to go to town for a few weeks. It was more it was more kind of like thrown together a little bit in that way. And then it was just has since just been a process of refining.
And so I want to get to something like the lessons that you’ve learned along the way now that you’ve been evergreening now for, what, a year and a half? Is that about right?
Yeah.
So recap the pricing for people for the course.
Yeah. So the pricings of the course, that’s the one thing I changed to when I went Evergreen is that the course is always available. It’s always available for purchase. It’s 4.97 is the full price of the course and I do discounting. So the discounted price of the course is to 97. So there are ways that you can get the course for that price as well. But yeah, I mean, it’s always available and I think that’s also something that was different before too, because I was doing a traditional open and closed model. Right? Well, people don’t always necessarily want to wait like a lot of my sales are happening at night. Like what? People are having a need, right? Because you get instant access to the course, too. So it’s like you’re going to get some answers right now in the moment.
And so what are we on track for? I mean, we’re recording this all first week of December. What are we on track for this year?
So let’s see, my my revenue has really drastically increased this year. So last year we did pay around 200,000 and this year we’re on track to do about 800. Yeah. So we’re we’re about to hit the big the big 1 million mark in revenue, which is the craziest thing that could ever happen in the world.
Yeah, I love it because again, this goes back to you are proving that, number one, it doesn’t have to be all complicated. Number two, the lesson here of knowing your target audience and how you can best serve them, what what are their needs leading with that? I literally am writing an email to my list right now about that exact topic of like, how often are we actually leading with? Putting our audience first, you know? Yes. Understanding them and what they need and helping them and benefit driven rather than like, oh, these are the features, this is what you know about me, etc., etc..
Yeah, And that’s definitely something I’ve learned along the way too, is, you know, I remember my daughter is older now, but I remember, you know, I remember how it feels when your kid isn’t sleeping. I know the anxiety of like, okay, I’m going to bed, but who knows how long until I’m getting. I’m woken up again. I know what it’s like to be exhausted. Like I know that. And so I can really speak to, you know, to the families that, you know, explaining their their their pain points and their struggles. And so, yeah, no, I don’t lead with the format of the course. Is these PDFs indented into that? Yeah and I really built my my rest method is the methodology that I that I teach in the course and it’s it’s very it’s meant to be very easy to understand and it’s not overly complicated because I’m talking to tired families so it can’t be over complicated. And I think that’s something people do too, is like try to jam all the information they’ve ever learned into their course. So it’s like so quote unquote valuable. But the value is in streamlining what you’re teaching people, right? How can I get you the information you need to solve your problems as quick as humanly possible?
Right. Because they are in like, I need this solved now mode.
Yeah. Yes, they yes, they need it solved now. So and that’s truly the amazing thing. I mean, the revenue numbers are just like crazy and it just really shows the need that the need that there is out there. And I’ve been able to help in the last two years. Over 3000 families have been helped in my course. And honestly, the number one thing that I hear people say is that it’s been life changing. And I probably tear up every day as I read these testimonials from people. And I’m like, Oh my God, like, this is so amazing, because if I was doing one on one work, I probably would have been able to help like maybe 200 families over a couple of years, you know, not that many. So the the impact that I’ve been able to make just it just blows my mind really.
When you think, Yeah, and and I know that you do but like as I’m sitting here thinking about that just, just listening to you right now, it’s like the the depth of, of impact that you’re able to have by helping them solve this one problem. And I don’t mean to minimize it, but you’re it’s affecting it’s affecting the child in an amazing way because they’re getting more sleep and it’s it’s more quality sleep, etc.. But like and then also for the parents, they’re getting more sleep, which obviously has profound effects on everything else in life.
Yes, it totally. And one of the other big things, too, is, you know, a lot of people are dealing with and you you alluded to this earlier with Maya. We’ll talk about that offline, but with, you know, difficult bed times where kids where there’s a lot of stalling and bedtime is taking 1 hours, 2 hours, multiple parents tears threatening, yelling, you know, stuff that we don’t want to be doing as parents. And so we end up feeling like crap. And then you just have to go to bed. So when you take all that away and you have like a peaceful evening in your kid is like asleep by 730 and then you and your spouse have hours of kid free time. Yeah, you know, you can watch TV, you can hang out like it’s that that is I think that’s what’s life changing, too, in addition to the actual sleep that people can get, you know, and not being woken up and stuff. It’s the time together. I think people will say that taking this course has been more beneficial than marriage counseling because it’s hard to cancel a marriage when the two people don’t ever have time together. They’re like two ships in the night, right? They might even be sleeping in different rooms and have been for years.
So. All right. So I want to get into like the lessons here, but I know that people are listening right now. They’re like, just how do I how do I buy the course? So what’s how can they buy the course?
So if you want to learn all kind of about my rest method and see the master class we’re talking about, they can go to toddler sleep, master class dot com, and then you can find out more about my course on my website Awesome little sleep dot com. And then please follow me on Instagram at Austin Little sleepers and and drop me a DM that you heard me on Rick’s show be so.
Excited and little sleepers I love it. All right so I want to sort of break down a little bit of the funnel here and then I want to share with everybody listening kind of the coaching that we’ve been doing and some of the things that when we first started working together, this foundation that we need to to strengthen before scaling. And I think that that’s something that I’m seeing this almost in literally
every conversation right now I’m having with people is like and I’ve mentioned it on on the show here more recently for people listening, like, you want to start a business, do this, please. But anyway, so what is the funnel look like right now?
Okay, so my funnel is I mean, it’s pretty simple. Like it’s so not over complicated, which I love. So I drive people to register for the master class. So that’s the toddler seat, master class dot com. That’s the page that you’ll see. You register for the webinar. From there you get emails reminding you to join it and then you attend the webinar. And then from there you can go to a sales page, then you’ll get dropped into my email nurture sequence and you will have three days If you want to enroll in the course for a discounted price. You’ve got three days to do that. And and then after that it goes back to the full price.
So you’re driving your through ads, correct?
So I’m driving people there through ads, through I have a YouTube channel also awesome Little Sleepers is my YouTube. So I’m there and then on my Instagram, Facebook. So yeah, I drive everybody to that to the masterclass because it’s really, you know, I think I also want to attract the right people, right? So in my master class, you kind of learn about my methodology. I’m teaching you some things in the class, so you kind of see my teaching style. So I think that really helps people feel comfortable. Like, okay, like I can learn something from her. She knows what she’s talking about.
Yeah. And when you’re when you’re doing the when you’re doing the master class and like, what kind of, what are some stats along the way Because you know, and we’re going to get into this here in just a second. But like you’re driving a lot of ad traffic right now. Obviously, they’re going to a conversion to a sorry to a registration page in general. I think this is people like to hear like the tactical stuff. Yeah. What what kind of. Version rate. Are you getting on the registration page?
Start registration page. I’m getting about a 40% conversion rate. You know, I have obviously the people that are coming from organic sources are converting a little bit higher, almost closer to like 58%. Yeah, that’s great. And then the ads, it’s closer to around 30%, the ads traffic.
So which is still really good.
Yeah.
Now when everybody always wants to know to when they’re setting up the evergreen funnel as far as times go, you know, do I offer sort of like an on demand option? Do I put times down? Et cetera. And what I always say is like, what do you think will be most beneficial to your audience? What what have you done there as far as what times you offer?
Well, I’ve just tested a bunch of thoughts, so basically so So what has worked really well? I’ve probably tested all of it. And it depends on your the platform that you’re using, what functionality they have. So I realize a lot of them differ. So one that I was using for live webinars didn’t have the functionality that I wanted for Evergreen, so I had to make a switch, but I run it at certain set times. I have tested running it like quote unquote on demand, where it’s where you just kind of have a button that says like, start it right now. What I personally found with that is I had a lot of people starting it and then just turning it off because it’s like, okay, I’ll check this out. And they’re like, Oh, I don’t have time. Yeah, yeah. So, so now I have it running at certain times or I also have it running at the next 15 minute mark. So like the top of the hour, 15 after 30 after. So you almost get that feeling like as you stumble on the page like oh one is about to start.
Yeah. And I want to kind of point something out here and I’m really glad that you brought up the sort of the quote unquote on demand option, because a lot of people say, well, like, well, why don’t you just, like, make it available right there on the landing page and it can work for some people. But oftentimes what happens is exactly what you just said, Jessica, is like people will be like, oh, yeah, I can watch her right now. But then they didn’t plan for that 30, 45, 60 minutes or whatever it is. So they might get into it and then they’re like, Oh, you know, I have to go do this or whatever. Whereas when they have a scheduled time now, they’re actually scheduling it into whether it’s in the calendar or whether it’s just in their brain or writing it down or whatever it might be. Now they’re setting aside time to do that.
Yes. And to use an analogy like, you know, how you know, you talk about like if you give someone for free, it doesn’t have any value. If they pay for it, they see the value in it. Right. It’s the same kind of thing. I think when you’re when you’re like, okay, yeah, 12 noon, I’m going to I’m going to you know, I’m going to watch this thing. I think it’s the same kind of thing. You’re making a little mini commitment. Yeah. And so my show up, my attendance rate is about 40%, which was actually way higher for my evergreen webinar than it ever was for my live webinars.
Yeah, I love it. So when we met, you were spending quite a bit on on meta ads. I still have weird still sounds weird to me. Facebook, Instagram ads. You’re spending, you know, a lot of money on it, on ads every single month. The problem that we that we uncovered is that we weren’t we weren’t able to directly correlate sales from. Ad spend.
Yes. And this is this conversation so funny. I will listen to this interview a year from now and be like kicking myself because I will have learned not even a year from now, like a month from now and have learned so much. But yes, I think I’ve been really too reliant on using the ad manager data, and I don’t think that’s necessarily reporting correctly. You’ve helped me, me realize this, and I was resistant to it for a while because I think I just didn’t I don’t know. I just didn’t want to know that. I didn’t know what I didn’t know. But I think the truth is that I do have some issues with attribution, and I think everybody does. It’s a really hard thing to figure out. Now, I’m kind of to the point where. You know, I want to be able to use Facebook ads, data. I want to better effectively use Google Analytics data. And then I also want to be able to use through tagging and stuff, use more data from ConvertKit. And that’s something I really wasn’t doing before. And I think being able to kind of triangulate in between those three things will help me better really have a clear understanding of where my traffic is coming from and where my sales are coming from.
Yeah, exactly. So just to kind of give some quick context and background to this conversation here. So when Jessica and I started working together, you know, one of Jessica’s goals was like, Hey, I want to scale this up. I want to I want to help more people with this and and generate more more revenue and increase by profit margin and very common things that that I work with people on. And so, as many of you know who’ve been listening to this podcast for for a while, I am like asking, all right, what are the numbers, What’s the data telling us? And when you know, and Jessica was like, Well, I can’t correlate where traffic is coming from, who’s converting, where are they converting from, etc.. And so, I mean, for how long has it been now? Jessica? Like it’s been like a couple of months now, right? Where it’s we have to get this in place first, which doesn’t happen overnight. Right? This is a this is a project. And in order to scale, we have to know the numbers first, get that foundation built so that, oh, you know what? I’m spending whatever, 30 grand a month on ads. I know that I’m making X amount of dollars from that.
Ad.
Or I’m spending 30 grand and I’m losing this much money. Okay, we need to fix this. And it’s like we don’t want to scale something that’s quote unquote broken. And I’m not saying is broken. It’s just like we’ve got to have this information first. And this is every single conversation of having a people right now. It’s this conversation right here.
Everybody in accelerator is in the same kind of boat. Yeah. And, you know, I think yeah, you’re right. I was kind of saying, like, here’s my ad spend and I’m making more than I’m spending. So, like, the ads are working. It’s like, okay, well, you don’t know that that’s not necessarily true. Like your business is working.
Yeah.
Right. But it may not be the ads that are that are driving it or driving all of it. So I have happy to report as of yesterday, 100% separated out my funnels. So I have you.
Have this is just me. I love it.
I know this is this is a report I wanted to be able to tell you today. Literally yesterday it had occurred. And I’ve been troubleshooting all morning because, you know, you have to know that I don’t know when you’re a business owner and you’re kind of the main I’m like the main person in terms of like tech and how things are tied together. So you got to you know, I knew there was going to be some tweaking, needed a new someone wouldn’t get a welcome email or something would happen. I’d have to fix my Zapier and everything. So I’ve been I’ve been doing that kind of stuff this morning. But yes, now I have two separate funnels. I have a meta ads funnel and then other catch all funnel.
So, so like your other like email or Instagram or YouTube or what have you.
Yeah, Yeah. All the other organic channels are going through.
There and you’re creating a dashboard where you can see at a glance, you know, traffic sales, where it’s all coming from, etc..
Yes. I want to get to the point where I can see yeah, where I can see where traffic is coming from, where I can see where sales are coming from and put values against those things and those tactics that that’s the ultimate the ultimate goal.
Yeah. And so just to kind of reiterate what we’re talking about here, this is the key to being able to scale because obviously you have a funnel that works, meaning like converting people. But when we can really look at, Oh, you know what? I know how much it costs me to acquire a customer, for example, through ads, through meta ads. And the customer is paying, you know, whatever it might be, 2.97 or what have you. It’s just it’s all numbers. It’s all data.
Yes, it’s all data. And interestingly enough, over this Black Friday, I kind of tried something different and I did kind of more of my own Instagram push for my little Black Friday deal. More so than an ads push. And you know, it’s interesting because I think I’ve got a lot more people who are interested in purchasing from me in my Instagram audience. And I may have realized, yeah, So when I’m able
to look at that and able to say, okay, maybe I need to be investing more in it more time and or more money into that channel. But yeah, I don’t know, unless I can see the numbers, you know.
And which you can now target. By the way, with your ads, you can create a custom audience of your Instagram followers, not just engagers, which is right just in the past week or so when we’re recording. Yeah, that’s brand new. So that is good.
Yeah.
So. So where do we go here with Jessica? Just you all from a coaching perspective is once we. So as Jessica just reported, she’s separated out her funnel, so now she has a better understanding of at least this is the data that’s coming from her meta ads. This is the data that’s coming from all the other sources, you know, organically. And now we look at, okay, we’re spending this much money on ads. This is these are the sales as as a result, these are the sales as a result. And it’s become more helpful, just like Jessica mentioned. And as I always talk about, we’re triangulating this data, which you’re taking, which means you’re taking data from different sources and you’re trying to piece it together and kind of compare the different sources to tell the story of what’s actually happening. And so when Facebook just recently increased their when they went back to the 28 day attribution window from seven days.
I saw that came up in mind today, by the way.
Oh, it did. Okay, cool. Yeah. Awesome. So this is helpful. Again, it’s the data is not super. It’s not to be fully trusted, but it’s a data point so that we can use that and compare that to our Google Analytics to what we’re seeing in our email CRM or our funnel software or what have you. And so we’re we’re using this data to tell the story. And once we’re able to tell that story, then we can scale because we don’t want to start pouring money into something or, you know, adding on a different channel or whatever, if, you know, if it truly what we’re doing isn’t working as quite as as well as we thought it was.
Yes. And what I’ve discovered and I’ve had someone helping me kind of clean out my Google Analytics is that getting a lot more traffic from these Google ads? Yeah. Then I realized which are kind of it’s kind of some Google ads that I set up and have been they’ve been unmonitored for a while, so. Can’t get.
Perfect example. Like, how long have you been running Google ads?
Oh, I don’t know. I set them up a year ago. It’s like a small budget and like, apparently it’s doing something, but I just don’t have it set up to track correctly. Yeah, but now I’m kind of seeing like, Oh, something’s happening over there, right?
And we wouldn’t know that because this is a perfect example. It’s like, Well, wait a minute, what if Google ads are more successful than meta ads? Okay, cool. Let’s build out the Google ad side, you know, and but we don’t know that until until we can actually look at it or get data, look at the data and analyze it. And that’s what tells a story like, okay, this is the direction that we’re going to sort of focus on now.
Yeah. Do I get to ask Mark Zuckerberg for a refund if that happen?
I mean, by all means, go for it. Consider it. Consider the request put out into into the Netherlands here. Well, I’m excited to where things are going because I know that this is like the sort of the you know, the the unfun part, you know, of like, oh, I got to get the data ready and or solidify this foundation before we can do the, quote, fun stuff. But you like it’s it’s once this is in it’s not like you have to do this every year or something like that. It’s like build it out once, keep refining it. Of course things change and so forth and need to be aware of that. But it’s like, all right, let’s get this built out. Foundation solidified, and then then we’re off to the races.
So yes, yes, I’m excited that that is going to be my my story of growth for 2023 is going to be with full eyes wide open and what’s happening in full, making smart, smart business decisions based on the numbers.
I love it So awesome little sleepers dot com. Toddlers sleep Master class and it is awesome. Little sleepers. Instagram. Youtube. Yep. Dmu Let you let everybody let Jessica know that you heard her on the podcast and any other places.
No, you too. Yeah. You said YouTube. Yeah, Those are the main places. Yeah. Let me know. You heard me on this show. This is like, been. I don’t know. I’ve been listening to your podcast for so long. It’s just. It’s just so wonderful to like. It’s so wonderful to know you and be working with you. And it’s such a pleasure to be on here.
Well, thanks for coming on. I appreciate it.
Yeah, of course.
All right. Hey, it would mean the world to me if you know somebody who could benefit from hearing this episode here today. If you consider sharing this episode, if you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, there’s those three little dots next to the podcast or next to the episode name, I should say. And in that dropdown, there’s an option to share. I feel like on Spotify there’s a share button right within the episode when you’re listening right on your on your phone, that would mean the world to me also. It’s still very helpful for the show and helps us reach more people with what we’re what we’re doing here on the podcast. If you could leave a very quick rating and review for the show over on Apple Podcasts, it literally takes like 10 seconds to do it. And I read all of the reviews. It means the world to me. Thank you so much in advance for doing that. It’s super, super helpful as always. Thank you, my friend, for listening to today’s episode coming to hang out with me. Hope you got a ton out of this conversation here with Jessica. Until next time, be well and I’ll talk to you soon.
