4 Mistakes Coaches Make That Build Useless Email Lists, with Neill Williams | Rick Mulready
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4 Mistakes Coaches Make That Build Useless Email Lists, with Neill Williams

September 7, 2022

 

Today on Art of Online Business, I sat down with a recurring guest, Neill Williams, to talk about the four mistakes that we see coaches making when it comes to their lead magnets and building useless email lists. 

This isn’t only applicable to coaches. These mistakes and tips can be applied to anyone, regardless of what they do in their business. 

Neill is a Master Certified Life and Time Coach through The Life Coach School, host of The Unbusy Your Life podcast, and creator of the $10K in 10 Hours Mastermind. Only after ditching her own belief that success was measured by the number of hours worked was Neill about to achieve true lifestyle freedom while juggling her roles as a mom, wife, Master Certified Coach, entrepreneur, and employee. 

Now, she helps too busy, high-achieving online entrepreneurs and side hustlers make the money they desire without sacrificing their time or lifestyle freedom.

You want your lead magnet to be short, simple, and easily digestible so you can give your audience the quick win they need to know, like, and trust you. 

 

In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • What’s in Neill’s 100K Funnel course
  • The importance of building a list that is full of the right people
  • Why a confused mind ignores
  • Why your lead magnet needs to be simple, short, and easily digestible
  • Tips for giving your audience a quick win
  • Why names are so important for your lead magnets
  • What you need to know about your cost per lead

 

Links & Resources:

 

Neill Williams Links: 

 

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Strengthening the Financial Health of Your Online Business, with Emily Sandberg

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Transcript:

Williams Welcome back to the podcast. How are you this fine Tuesday, July 19th, when we’re recording this? Amazing. I’m so excited to be back on the show with you, Rick. So thanks for having me. 

Absolutely. So we’re going to be talking about when you and I were chatting back and forth about what we should dive into on this specific episode. You’re a regular guest here on the show, and so I’ll have you reintroduce yourself here in just a second. But specifically and we’re going to talk about coaches, the mistakes that coaches make in terms of lead magnets and so forth. But these principles, regardless of whether you’re a coach or not, are going to be applicable to you. Totally. So, yes, we’re going to be talking about four mistakes that coaches make when it comes to their lead magnets. That and I love this. And this is like I’ve not heard it said this way, but it’s so true that using lead magnets that build useless email lists. So we’re going to dive into to all that and exactly what that means, what these mistakes are, and obviously, what can we do in in sex? I know that you see this a lot in in your business. So what is your business for those people who are just listening to the podcast for the first time and they’re like, who is this Neil Williams person? 

Yeah, well, I help other coaches, business owners who are building online businesses, who are experts or teachers in some capacity. Coaches typically in the online space build their business in about 10 hours per week. So that’s what I do in my private practice. And then I also have the honor of being a coach inside of the accelerator mastermind. So kind of a couple of different things that I do inside my business, but all entrepreneur business related coaching. 

And you are like the master of naming your offers, you have the most amazing names. Yeah. So you have a you have a you have a mastermind. I do, yeah. And what’s the name of that? 

It’s called ten K in 10 hours. 

Ten K in 10 hours. So if anybody didn’t know what that was, they just read the name and it’s like, okay, I get this and I want that. Yes. And you’ve just created an online course. Yeah. As well. Like literally when we’re recording this has just been within the past few weeks that things have finished up. You’re putting the finishing touches on it, but emails are written, you’re starting to make offers to your list and so forth. And what is that course? 

Well, that course was a collaborative brainchild, I believe, between you and I. You told me I should do this course. And I was like, okay. And then a couple of weeks later, I had it done. So it’s called the 100 K funnel. And again, like you say, I’m a great at naming, but you actually helped me come up with this name. So this was kind of your names? 

I really am for that for that offer. For some reason, I’m like, I know what it’s going to be. Yeah, but yeah, yeah. And so what do you teach that is in this course is about what we spoke about in the last episode that you were on the show here. So for those people who have not heard that episode, what is the 100 K funnel all about?

Yeah. So it’s about how to build a funnel that makes that it’s like building a business that makes 100 K for you. So how do you build that sales funnel that does that all the way from niche to offer to like the nuts and bolts of the funnel and how you get people on your email list and move them through the process to become paying clients so that you can become fully booked, sell out your courses, programs and masterminds, but in a consistent and repeatable manner, not an off. 

Screen that machine, if you will, the ability and that in that consistency. And for those of you who have not heard the last episode, especially if you have a higher ticket, quote unquote offer, yeah, we break down Neil’s entire funnel in that episode. And if I’m not mistaken, you know, you have like a 90% show up rate when you have a call with somebody to discuss, you know, the the the mastermind ten K and 10 hours. Yeah. So we’re not going to get into that today because we did a whole episode on it last time. But it’s we talked about, like I said, you should create a course around this and then like three weeks later you’re like, Yeah, I’m done. Like what? Yeah. So yeah, where can people real quick, if they want to learn about the mastermind, if they want to learn about the course, what are the best what’s the best place for them to go. 

I think just go to my website WW Neil Williams dot com that’s Neil Williams dot com or you can chat with me on Instagram my hand handle is at Neil Williams coach. 

At Neil Williams coach. Okay. I’ll link them up in the show notes for today’s episode as well. Excuse me, but something that you see a lot of and I’ve seen a lot of this over the years as well, is. Lead poor lead magnets. And, you know, we often think that, oh, we have a lead magnet. Oh, we’re running ads to it and we’re getting a great lead cost. But yet. Those people aren’t turning into paying customers. Right. And so you see this a lot, like I said, in in your business, what are some mistakes that that coach is? And again, this is applicable to regardless of what you do in your business. But what are some mistakes that you see that coaches are making with their lead magnets? 

Yeah. So I think first, all of these lessons are like hard earned lessons, you know, like so many of us, like from many funnels that have not worked, many email lists that sit there when you send an email or I have sent an email and there’s like crickets. There’s like nothing happening with that list, right? Or just funnels that are just debunked like they just don’t work in terms of like building a business where you sell out your programs, courses or masterminds. So I started to get really curious about what is going on and how do you create a lead magnet that actually works? And what I mean that is it is really good. So it’s something that somebody wants. So your cost per lead is low, like our cost per liter is under $5. And for the students in my mastermind, they are all doing this to for well under $10. I don’t think anybody is getting cost per lead more than more than that. So it’s that piece. But then it’s also like making sure that you’re building an email list that is the right people for your course program or mastermind because you could have an email list. It’s great. Like maybe you do that part, but then if they’re not the right fit, if they’re not qualified leads, who cares, right? I mean, it’s not helpful. So one of the biggest mistakes, I think we’ll take like two pieces of this. 

It’s how to get or create an email, a lead magnet that grows your email list for like a reasonable cost where you’re not spending like millions of dollars for your leads. Right? Yeah. So the first place that I see mistakes make and made and this happens with coaches a lot and I think it happens with a lot of online experts because we fundamentally, most of us have like a servant’s heart, like we literally want to help all the people with all the things. Yeah, yeah. So it’s well intended, but it’s not helpful. So what we end up doing is we like try and create like the 50 page e-book or a video that’s an hour long or like it’s so much content. It’s like we ask our people to drink from the fire hose kind of idea. Yeah, it’s just too much. And so that’s the first thing that I see is a mistake. Is, is when someone becomes overwhelmed or confused by what you’re trying to give them, like the brain’s automatic response to that is to ignore, to filter out, to just keep scrolling by, to avoid. And so the first thing that I see is, okay, how much are you trying to give away here? And you always know it’s well-intended, but it’s just not useful or helpful because the person receiving it can’t take it in and so they’ll just float on by. 

Yeah. 

So a confused mind ignores is the first lesson here. 

Hmm. I love that. I mean, think about like I’m thinking about as you’re saying that I’m thinking about over the years when eBooks were much more, much more much more popular as a lead magnet. There’s still plenty of people doing it. Totally. I would download an e book and it was like 40 pages long and it would go in my download folder and never see the light of day. I would never click on it again. Right. Which isn’t the intention. No lead magnet. Right. So I love that a confused mind ignores. Yeah. I love it.

We don’t want our lead magnets. Just collect digital dust. We want them to actually be used by the people who are opting into them. And so the best way to do this is to think about like this is the analogy that I like to use. The lead magnets are dopamine hits. Fundamentally, we’re just getting a little hit of something, right? Like a little win. And so you want to be thinking about is this am I trying to give my person the candy bar or the kale salad here because they’re going to consume the candy bar. The kale salad, they’re gonna be like, No, thanks. And they’re going to it’s just going to be in your folder. Right, right, right. Some day I’ll get back to this, but I never will. 

Yeah. And so that loops back to the whole, like you said, that build useless email list. People will download your e-book, but they’re not going to consume it again. It’s 40 pages long. So yes, you’re building your list, but it’s not a quality lead, quote unquote, when they haven’t even consumed what they gave you their email address to to download. Yeah. 

Yeah. So you want to think about it needs to be like I call it the Netflix litmus test. Think about Netflix and what we get with Netflix. We literally like with a click of a button, we get whatever it is that we want. Like the video pops up, you know, that’s the kind of experience we want to create for our. Person two Because we live in this immediate gratification culture. So what? We want something and we want it fast and we want it to be really easy. So really considering and the more time sensitive your niche is, the more you really need to lean into this. So it needs to be super simple, super short, easily digestible, easy to consume. Otherwise, like you said, like, yeah, you’re going to have this person on there on your email list, but they’re never going to know, like and trust you because they’ve never they couldn’t consume the thing that you were trying to give to them. 

Yeah. And I love that you bring that up as far as this is where again, I totally agree with you. I see this so often. This comes with knowing your target audience? Because if they’re busy moms, yeah, they’re probably not going to watch an hour long webinar. Right? Right. And I know this was something that you and I talked about a few years ago where it’s like, okay, let’s break this up into bite sized pieces so that, you know, like, okay, they can watch something and they get to choose when they want to go to the next one. Yeah. Or yeah, if they’re a busy mom, just stay on that. They’re a busy mom. They’re certainly not going to read a 40 page, you know, a 40 page book. So I like this confused mind ignores and align with the audience that you’re trying to attract. 

Yeah. Really think about your person. Like, everything that I teach is always driven about thinking about the person that I’m serving and how can I serve them best. And me trying to force a 40 page pdf down someone who does not have the time or the brainpower left at the end of the day to consume that is not serving them. 

Yeah. 

So that’s mistake number one. And again, it comes from a well-intended place. It’s just not useful. It just doesn’t work. So the next thing that I see is, again, from that same place, not only like trying to curate, like we think about giving more is better, right? That idea is what the first mistake is. The next one is thinking about giving your person something that is a win and I think people have a hard time like that. Seems like a great idea conceptually, Neal, but what does that actually look like? Right? 

Yeah. 

So think about what we want in our culture. We want something to make our life easier, better. We want it to. We want, like, if you could save someone somebody’s time, if you can save them money, if you can solve some little problem that is just like this annoyance or little gnat or like helps them move to the next step in something. That’s what we want. We want that kind of help. So that’s what you want to deliver with your lead magnet. And so when you’re thinking about it, like you don’t want to just create some random thing that sounds good with your lead, but you literally want someone to get some value, some sort of success, some win from it. And this is something you taught me a long time ago about this idea. Give them the quick win. It’s again, it’s the same idea is like they want the candy bar. They don’t want the kale salad. 

Yeah. Yeah. It’s a. 

Dopamine. 

Hit. And give it give, give that whatever format it is. Maybe it’s an audio know, it’s an audio based lead magnet that they can listen to. Maybe it’s like an eight minute audio lesson or whatever it might be, training that they can use, throw in the earbuds and and go. But yeah. So what are some examples of things that you’ve seen? And you also do a great job with your lead magnets as well, where either yourself or students that you’ve worked with or are working with who have great lead magnets that are achieving that, giving somebody a quick win.

Yeah. Again, I think it goes back to like anything that makes somebody’s life easier and better. And I’ll I’ll come up with a couple of examples as we’re talking through this. But it’s like if you if someone makes your life better, just think about how you think about that person. Like even for you, if someone comes in and is like, I can help you with this, I’m going to give you this thing. It’s going to solve something. Like, what is your reaction to that person? What do you automatically kind of think about them? 

I, I adore that person. No. Right. Yeah. They’re they move up the list for me for sure. 

That’s right. Yeah. And that’s the whole point, right? It’s like, yes, getting someone on your email list. But then the purpose of that is then for them to get to know like and trust you and how what’s the best way for them to know they can trust you for you to actually help them with something. 

Yeah. 

So giving them something that’s a little bit of a win, a little bit like maybe it’s even inspiration or helps them move forward in some way. I like to think about is there some way that I could save them money or time? Because those are like the two big pivot points for most of us in our lives. Yeah. And I tend to land on the time saving piece just with my the audience that I serve. Sure. So I’m just trying to think of like a couple of different lead magnets. Like one that’s been really, really popular that we’ve used in my business is a 30 day planner, so we created a 30 day planner for you to be able to know how to use 10 hours per week to build your business. So that’s a really quick win, right? Because if someone sees like, oh, this is how I’m supposed to be scheduling out my time, like we give you templates for your 10 hours of how you schedule out your time. Do you see how that saves time? Because now you don’t have to think about what should my schedule look like? I’ve already just given it to you. 

Yeah. 

And you just put it in there. So that’s the kind of thing that we’re talking about, like templates, cheat sheets, anything that’s done for you, that’s a quick, easy thing that someone could use and consume and get some value from. That’s what we’re talking about. 

And with specifically with regard to that example that you just use and for for my friends listening. The key here also in addition to the quick win, is it naturally aligns with your next offer. Yeah. So someone hearing ten K and 10 hours for the name of the mastermind that you have, Neal, people people might think like, oh no. Like that’s not even no, I don’t have 10 hours and that’s also not possible. Right. Where you have a lead magnet slowly free, they give you your email address. Here you go. I’m going to show you how to create ten more hours in your schedule. So you kind of remove that objection, if you will. And they’re getting, like you said, a quick win through done for you through templates. You’re just showing them. All you can do is fill this out, answer a few questions or whatever, and you have it here. So when you’re thinking through a lead magnet, think through what is like what is a logical first step towards whatever your offer, whatever your offer is. And the example that you just used, Neal, is perfect for what? For what you do in your business. Yeah. 

And it’s so funny because that is one of the mistakes that I see. So that was one on my list, was creating a lead magnet that has nothing to do with your actual offer. 

I didn’t know that spilled the beans to. 

No, but that is like the next thing. So I want to talk about that. But there’s another example for another student that I wanted to share with you, because this one, we created her offer together and then like it’s she has people buying it before we even have the funnel up. Like, that’s how good it is. It’s so amazing. So the lead magnet that we’re going to that we’re using to build her funnel with is so she’s a story brand copywriter. And what she does is she helps busy solopreneur producers write copy that sells in two and a half hours. So like you literally write your sales page or you write your landing page or whatever and two and a half hours. And it’s a collaborative effort. So you do you answer some questions and then you have a call with her and she, like, puts it all together for you. So, like, you know that you’re doing it right. It’s like the literally the most amazing thing ever. I’m so in love with her and what she’s doing. So we’re coming up with a lead magnet for her. And I was like, Well, let’s just it needs to be tied into what you already do and it needs to. So it’s a time savings kind of thing that she’s doing. So let’s make it a time saving thing. So what we came up with was Five Steps to write a headline that sells your offer in 5 minutes. Like. Right. 

Where do I go? Down. The lead magnet. Yeah. That’s great. Yeah.

Yeah. It’s directly in alignment with what she’s doing, and it saves somebody’s time. Yeah, right. So a busy solopreneur. To think about, like, that person is highly time sensitive. So knowing her niche as well as she does, she has to create things that they can actually do in the little bits of time that they have available to be working on their business. Because they don’t have a team, they 

don’t have a copywriter, they don’t have all of these extra resources. They’re like on their own doing it by themselves. So again, that’s another example of how is very specifically driven for her person, her understanding her person very well, giving them something they can use and get value from and in direct alignment with her offer. 

I’m just thinking about the offer itself as well. I mean, I want the lead magnet and you’re like, wait a minute, I can write copy. I can write a new sales page in two and a half hours. Yeah, I know. I mean. 

Of course I bought it. I was like her first student. I was like, Well, I want this. Can you hurry up and get it done so I can buy it? 

You you didn’t created this. I love the promise I’m buying right now. I mean, that’s that’s what I mean. One of your big things with you, you help people come up with a niche and, you know, as a coach, excuse me, and obviously you got to have the niche before you can create the offer. But yeah, one of your big things too is like and we’ll get sidetracked for a second here is so many people are afraid of selling like I’m not good at selling. Selling, I’m afraid of it freaks me out. I don’t want to be pushy, etc., etc.. Well, when you have an offer like you just described. Yeah, like where do I sign up? There’s no selling involved at all. Yeah, right. And that is. 

Yeah. And to your point, like that is the work that I do because I’m one of those I didn’t want to be the I tried to be good at selling for a long time. I failed. It was miserable, total disaster. So it was like, okay, I’ve got to figure out how to do this where I’m not really good at selling. And so the way to do that is to create an offer that’s so good. It just kind of sells itself. You just like put it on the table and people are like, Yes, thank you. I will take that. Yeah, but there’s no heavy persuading or convincing or any of that that goes into it. 

Yeah. And the name itself of an offer really helps. But also like, okay, here’s the name, but then this is the promise of that offer. Like in your in your, in your example there. If this person helps you write. Whatever sales page copy in two and a half hours. And it’s a good copy. I’m like and and she’s a story brand you know for for those people don’t know that’s Donald Miller and very reputable not only person but business and framework and everything. Yeah. This is coming from a story brand copywriter. And they’re going to help you write the copy in two and a half hours. It’s like I mean, I think of sales pitch copy. I just gloss over. I’m like, I don’t like no, that’s not for me. That’s awesome. So, yeah, it sells itself totally. 

And that’s the whole idea, right? And we kind of want that same experience with your lead magnet. That’s kind of what we’re going for with the lead magnet. So two things that you said there. Yes, we want to make sure that it’s in alignment with your paid offer. And this is why I think people do this wrong. They they try to create the lead magnet first and then create the offer. And I think you have to swap it. I think you need to have your paid offer done and then create the lead magnet from there. Because if they are out of alignment, you’re just going to get these people on their list that are great for the lead magnet but are not great for your paid offer. And so then again, you have a useless list. 

Yeah, yeah. What are your what are your thoughts on somebody who has, like, nine lead magnets? 

Um. You know me. Like, I like everything simple. 

Yeah. I don’t mean. What do you think about that person? I just mean, like there’s nine lead magnets. What? You. What are your thoughts? 

My brain wants to go into overwhelm. Yeah, thinking about it. But I would wonder why you needed so many. That would be like my first question. Why do you like if you’re testing? I guess it’s totally fine. You can. I mean, and I would question whether you’re very niched, if you feel like that’s what you need, because if you’re pretty niched, I think you could have one lead magnet like the funnel that we’ve been running for ten, 10 hours. We started in January and it’s the same lead magnet, the same funnel for seven months. 

Which in it works. 

And it works like we’ve made we’ve sold out every group that we have had. So I just I think it’s probably fine. I would just have some questions about some other things going on in that funnel. If that weren’t.

We perfectly aligned in the simplification or desire for simplification? I think the one may be off the top of my head. One exception to this probably would be those people listening in the teaching space like teacher entrepreneurs. Yeah, yeah. Where they do. I mean, one of the things that that that we coach on an accelerator is. All right, have you already again you have the resource first they might have a resource that they sell, whether it’s on their own website or on teachers, pay teachers what have you, and then create a lead magnet that is a again same concept, natural first progression towards that paid resource. They might have a lot of lead magnets because they have generally have a ton of resources. Yeah, but again there’s, there’s that tipping point of like, holy cow, I have so many lead magnets. And the key here is being able to track the success of, oh, this lead. And it’s it’s a lot harder in the teachers pay teachers world because you can’t track that on the site. But if you’re able to track like oh this you talked about Neil like testing different lead magnets. This lead magnet performs really well and maybe the lead costs are higher for this lead magnet. However more people from that lead magnet convert into into sales. 

Yeah, totally. 

Yeah. And that’s where people honestly that’s where I think for anybody listening right now, here’s a here’s a job tip. I have this conversation almost every day with successful online business owners that they are looking for somebody who knows how to connect marketing systems in the back end, but also how to set up tracking and to deliver data. To show what’s working and what’s not working. 

Yes. 

If if there is anybody listening right now who you’re really good at that please message me on Instagram because I get asked that all the time of recommendations and I am short on that list. And if anybody listening right now, it needs to create something for what they’re like. That is an amazing opportunity. So if you’re able to track from Lead Magnet, like we’re talking about all the way through to a sale, that’s powerful. 

Totally. Yeah. I think, like, that’s for sure. A business. So if there’s nobody listening who’s doing that business and you want a successful business, pretty immediately do that. 

Oh, for sure. 

I mean, I could give you lots of work in record. I mean, between us, they’d be fully booked for the rest of time probably. 

I’ve had multiple people like names that that many of you listening would recognize New York Times best selling top podcast. In all of podcasts, people that I’ve known for years, they’re like, Please, do you know anybody who can be my data person and be able to do the marketing back end and be able to connect the dots? Yeah. So anyway. 

There you go. Somebody go through that business real. 

Quick and then reach out. That’s right. So the third one was creating a lead magnet that’s irrelevant to your to your offer. Yeah. I don’t know if that was the fourth one on your list and I jumped to that one. But what is the. It was. But that’s all right. Okay. 

The fourth one you already mentioned, two is creating a really amazing name. Names are actually really, really important. And here’s the role of a name with your lead magnet. You think about like how busy your Instagram or Facebook feed is and you’re scrolling through your brain is on overdrive, filtering things out. So it has to be something that like jumps out at them. The whole goal is that stops their scroll long enough that they’re like, Oh, wait, this is kind of interesting. And then they kind of take a deeper look at it and then they click, Yeah. 

How do you come up with your names for lead magnets? 

You know what I do? Here’s my best tip. If you’re all listening, you’ve been tuning out, come back to us, because this is a hot tip. If you have tuned out the last 28 minutes, please come back.

Okay, so they’re this is kind of funny, but in the checkout stand, you know, when you’re waiting in line at the checkout stand at the grocery store. 

Yep. 

And you look at the magazines, look at the headlines. 

Like National Enquirer. 

I mean, any of them, right? The whole like these people get paid millions of dollars to write headlines for these because the headline sells the magazine. So I just buy them or I take pictures of them, and then I just use them for inspiration, for ideas, for lead magnets or headlines in emails or names of masterminds and courses like yeah. You know, they’re I think sometimes we make it really hard for ourselves to create names. We put a lot of pressure, and I think it could be actually just pretty easy just by like using a little bit of something else that’s already out there and see how you can spin it on your for your own niche or for your own lead magnet or whatever. 

One tool that I’ve been using the past several months and I am not I don’t think of an affiliate for that. I’m looking at my screen right now. I don’t think I’m an affiliate. But is Jasper. Jasper, I think it was Jarvis when they first came out. Yes, I like Jarvis better, but I don’t know why they changed it. But anyway, like you can put information. I actually use it a lot for my coming up with podcast episode names. Yeah, but you put some information about there and it’ll give you different options and you can select like what type of, you know, result that they kick out. I think it’s like witty or professional or what have you. So that can be helpful. But I love like just super easy go to your supermarket or, you know, wherever you see like a newsstand and just start looking at at titles. 

Yeah. And here’s the response that you want to create. And I even just challenged like everyone to do this like opt into a lot of funnels. That’s how I’ve learned so much of what I’ve learned is just by looking at and constantly filling my brain with new ideas and inspiration from other people. And so I like to just I see something and then I pay attention to how I feel and what I’m thinking that makes me want to click on that thing. And typically what happens is you’re going to have some sort of response like, I want that or I need that, or I’ve been looking for that. That’s exactly what I need. And what’s happening is you’re creating a feeling of desire for your person. And we as humans want to fulfill desire in the way that we do. That is get the thing that is the object of our desire. So that’s the whole goal with the naming, is to create that kind of response for your person. 

And all this leads back to, you know, where he said in the title of this episode where we’re trying not to build a useless email list and all these things like, you know, the confused mind ignores was the first one in which in. Closely related to that is knowing your audience and what what they need. It sounds so obvious, right? But it’s like these are things that we overlook quickly, number one. Number two, give your person a win, specifically a quick win in the format that is most relevant to that audience. Right. That they’re busy. Mom, a 90 minute webinar is probably not the best solution. Right? The third thing we talked about was creating a lead magnet that’s irrelevant to your offer. And then the fourth one, create an amazing name of your lead magnet. Yeah. You mentioned something at the very beginning of our chat here, Neal, too. You said when you get these things in line, your lead costs will oftentimes be be cheaper, right? 

Yeah. 

And I want to remind people that if your lead car costs are a little bit higher and you’re doing these principles here that Neal just shared, that’s not a bad thing. Because if you’re paying whatever, if you’re getting to say as a number $2 leads versus $6 leads in those six star leads are the ones who are converting into customers. I’ll take $6 leads all day long. 100%. The numbers work. 

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And I think the other thing I keep hearing this from Rick, I don’t know if people are saying this to you, but I keep hearing Facebook ads don’t work anymore. Like I just can’t even get any leads because and I’m always so confused by that and that is not my experience at all and it’s not the experience of my students. So I’m always kind of interested why what’s going on that is creating that experience for that person. And I wonder a little bit if it is the lead magnet piece, like not knowing how to create one that I think it’s has to satisfy all four of these in order for it to be a really an email list. It creates an email list. That’s the right list and of an engaged audience. Yeah. And kind of like the cherry on the top is like maybe you get a little bit lower cost per lead.

Absolutely. And these things that we’re talking about, I hear it every day, oh, Facebook ads and Instagram ads don’t work anymore. You got to go over to Tik Tok and like. Don’t get me wrong. Tik Tok is an amazing opportunity. It is the Wild West and it’s amazing. But there’s still a ton of opportunity on Facebook and Instagram. Is it different than it was 18 months ago? Of course it is after the privacy thing and you know, the tracking is more limited and etc., etc.. But you can absolutely see great results from it when you understand the types of things that we’re talking about here today. And so much of this goes back to sort of one B, if you will, of knowing your audience in what they are and what they need. Yeah, this is the whole reason I think you and I have talked about this, Neal, but like years ago, this is the whole reason why I decided to make sort of some people call it I pivoted or whatever. I just call it like I stepped back from just Facebook ads to teach the overarching, more holistic, you know, from building an online business. 

The main reason that started was because so many people were coming to me saying, My Facebook ads don’t work. And then we dove into it is because you have a crappy lead magnet. It’s sorry, but it’s not ads manager. You’re not doing anything wrong in there is you don’t understand your audience. And thus, how can you create a lead magnet that’s going to work when you don’t even understand the audience that you’re trying to attract? Yeah, totally. So these are basic marketing principles in terms of understanding your audience and offering them something that is going to be most helpful to them based on your understanding of them. And so anyway, I love this and in. I love the piece of this that when you do and follow these four principles here, you’re building an email list that is more likely to be engaged and more likely to purchase from you rather than, oh, there’s 20,000 people on the list, but they’re not doing, you know, it’s just a vanity number. 

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And to what you just said, like, I think it’s really important to think. 

About. 

Not only what they need, but what they think they need. That’s really what like the lead magnet is about, like meeting them where they are and what they think they need. And then as you move them through your business and they are in your paid program, you can give them more of the coaching that they actually really need. But we’ve got to meet them where they are first. 

Yeah, that’s a great point. Yeah. So good as always. Fun. Where can people I know we talked about at the very beginning but you also have so Neil Williams dot com is your website your two programs are ten K and 10 hours that is a mastermind and your brand new course when we’re recording this is the 100 K funnel. Yep you can get more information everybody at Neil Williams and you also have a podcast. Tell us about that. 

Yes, I have a podcast called On Busier Life, although we’re currently thinking about rebranding that. So if anybody has any brilliant naming ideas, I’ll take them. Yeah. Where I teach you about what it’s like to have a business in a ten hour work week and all the things that we do and how to actually have a successful business in that in a ten hour workweek. And it’s really what’s interesting. I’m kind of a data nerd, as you might have guessed with my background, but I was looking at the US Bureau of Labor Statistics the other day, and what’s interesting is with by 2027, it will be more common for people to have a side business than not. In the US, over 50% of Americans will have that. So when we’re thinking about building a business, it doesn’t have to be at the sacrifice of sleep, of time with your kids, of the things that you love to do in your life. It can just be this additional thing that you do and it doesn’t have to suck up. A lot of time is really one of the messages that I want people to hear. I really want to be a part of trying to change the way that we think about work in this country that we don’t need to do those 60, 70, 80 hour workweeks. So it’s not necessary. That’s not the world that we live in anymore. And part of my way of doing that is showing by example that you can have a successful business at a ten hour workweek. Yeah, so that’s the goal of that podcast. 

I love it. On Busier Life is the current name. Yes. Going through a renaming process. Yes. So that’s on where? Wherever you listen to podcast, where you listen to this show right now, you can find Neil’s podcast there. I will link that up on the show notes for today’s episode as well. So Neil, as always, gold, thank you. I always hear amazing feedback when you’re on the podcast. So good you’re going to be back on your regular here on the show. You’ll be back on many, many more times. So thank you for coming back on. I appreciate you. 

Thank you so much for letting me be here. So fun. 

Boom. 

All right. So good. So good. Drop some little.

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