Hey there! Welcome to another episode of the Rick Mulready podcast. Today, I had the pleasure of interviewing Shannon McKinstrie, the founder of Boutique Social, about her success on TikTok and her approach to creating a simple yet effective sales funnel on the platform.
Shannon shares her tips for creating successful content on TikTok, emphasizing the importance of storytelling, using keywords, and repurposing content. She also discusses her sales funnel, which is simple and organic, and how she uses KPIs to track success.
In this episode, you'll learn:
- Shannon's approach to creating successful content on TikTok
- The importance of storytelling and using keywords on the platform
- How to repurpose content for maximum impact
- Shannon's simple and organic sales funnel on TikTok
- Using KPIs to track success on the platform
- Shannon's guide for understanding the algorithm and creating a successful bio on Instagram
- Her membership program, Social Squad Society
If you're looking to up your TikTok game or create a simple yet effective sales funnel, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in to hear Shannon's expert advice and insights.
Links & Resources:
- The Art of Online Business website
- DM me on Instagram
- Visit my YouTube channel
- The Art of Online Business clips on YouTube
- Full episodes of The Art of Online Business Podcast on YouTube
- The Art of Online Business Podcast website
- Check out my Accelerator coaching program
Shannon McKinstrie's Links:
- Visit Shannon's website
- Visit Shannon's LinkedIn
- Follow Shannon on Instagram
- Follow Shannon on Twitter
- Checkout Shannon's YouTube channel
Please support the podcast by giving an honest Rating/Review for the show on iTunes!
I really tell people a lot. If you're not having fun or enjoying it, we can tell. And I think, again, I put minimum effort into this just because I really wanted to test something out. Because if you ask me about Instagram, I spent a lot of time, but that's also because I love it too. But it also proves if you've done the back work and you have everything set up, you don't have to. Your content strategy does not have to take hours every week. It just doesn't.
We? All right.
What's up, my friends? Welcome to today's episode of The Art of Online Business podcast. Rick here. And when somebody is doing really well on TikTok and I don't necessarily mean in terms of like number of followers over there on TikTok, I'm more so talking about they are generating leads and sales with their TikTok content and with their TikTok account. And also in addition to that, when somebody is growing their TikTok following really quickly and getting leads and sales as a result, that's something I want to know more about.
And that is exactly what today's guest, Shannon McKinstrie, is doing over on TikTok. Now, Shannon is the founder of Boutique Social. She's a social media mentor and strategist for business owners who want to make an impact and get big results through organic, sustainable and proven social media strategies. She is a social media manager herself. She also teaches other social media managers how to grow their business as a social media manager. And she her main platform is actually Instagram. She's been doing Instagram for years. And then as you're going to hear today on the show, back in September of 2022, she decided to try this TikTok thing out. And she has seen a huge success, huge amount of success over there, not only in growing her following over there, but she's created a really simple, yet effective sales funnel over on TikTok, selling a 9.97 program for social media managers. And I got to tell you, the way that Shannon talks about how she has seen success and the types of things that she does and how she approaches it is just she makes it really approachable and really simplifies it down.
And I think you're going to get a ton out of this conversation with Shannon. And in addition to, you know, how to build a simple TikTok sales funnel, which is what Shannon's going to be talking about here today, we kind of talk about social media in general. We break down her, her strategy or maybe lack thereof, as you're going to hear over on TikTok, maybe some of the differences between TikTok and Instagram. And also she talks a lot about repurposing content and how she basically just has a thought during the day and says, oh, I'm going to make a TikTok video about that, picks up her phone and she just does it. It has it's working. She sees a lot of success. And then finally, at the end of the episode, at the end of the interview here today, I ask her, because I get this question all the time from our accelerator coaching members is how do you what kind of KPIs do I give to my social media manager? Or I've just hired a new social media manager and what kind of specific goals can I give them? And I ask Shannon that question towards the end of this interview.
So if you're interested in learning what she says, make sure you listen to the end because she breaks it down for you. Says, Oh, that's such a great question. And then she gives some concrete examples for you. So without further ado, let's go hang out with Shannon McKinstrie. So Shannon, we're gonna be talking about TikTok today and how you're crushing it on TikTok, But your background, Instagram. Yes, but you still teach Instagram. How did you get into I mean, was it a natural sort of like, oh, short form video, let's go over to TikTok or like or was it was there more intention behind it?
There is a little bit of intention, but I'm definitely one of those people who's like, You do not have to be everywhere. I tell everyone, I'm like, You literally can choose one spot for him if you want it. It's up to you. But because I not only consult, but I also manage. I was like, I need to get over there to see what's working because I need to teach this.
I need to be able to teach this. So I went in with just like, what's working? Let me dissect this. And I love testing out different types of content. Also, a lot of the trends that end up on Instagram start on TikTok. So it's kind of fun to see what's working. And then by the time it comes to Instagram, I can really help people nail their messaging with it. So yeah, it just started kind of fun and I just put zero pressure on myself for TikTok, and I think that's probably why it works. I think because TikTok is definitely not something that there's no answer that I can find for what works. It's really just think a lot of it comes down to personality, knowing your people and just telling them what they need to hear and not overcomplicating it. So I just kind of started. All I know how to do. One of my favorite things on Instagram is stories. So I literally would just take some Instagram stories I did on Instagram and put them on TikTok.
Okay? And that's where I started. So I just talked to the camera like I was talking to my friend. And that's why I love Instagram stories. That's what it feels like to me. And I think the energy behind creating things that you like, you know, translates. No matter what platform you're on. And so, yeah, started putting it on TikTok and I started getting, you know, people following me, people asking where to purchase. And I was like, what is happening? This is crazy. But yeah, I really just went in kind of like, let's test this out for fun for my clients. Then I was like, We can actually I can actually make money on this app and then created a strategy from there.
So the people that were following you and asking you like, Hey, we're like, Where can I buy something? Is that people that you invited over from Instagram or those are like just the algorithm was working in your favor?
Just the algorithm. That was crazy because while I teach Instagram on Instagram, I hope business owners of all different hope, people who sell products, services, you name it, I don't really have like a really small niche over there.
I just love helping people create content that works on Instagram and I know how to do it really, really well. TikTok. I was like, I can't teach TikTok on TikTok. And I also didn't want to teach Instagram on TikTok because I'm like, Who cares over there? They don't, you know? Sure. I mean, I'm sure there's an audience for that. But I was like, Honestly, I want to do something totally different over here. And because I also have a course for people who do what I do, obviously on Instagram, my audience wants to know Instagram, even the people who do what I do want my content about Instagram because it helps them sure improve their skills for their clients. So I was like, Well, maybe because when I first started on TikTok, my first ones were like, Here's how the algorithm worked and just like didn't care about it. Like, I love teaching Instagram. I just was like, I don't really enjoy teaching TikTok. So I was like, Well, what? And I was like, Well, you know what? The course I have for social media managers to do what I do is just sitting there and it's evergreen.
And I really felt like I exhausted my Instagram audience with it because it was over two years old and I was like, You know what? Maybe if I start creating content for my people that do what I do and I can be this safe space for them to complain. And it works because I think the magic to TikTok, like many platforms, right, we're there to feel seen, be validated. And I know what social media managers need to hear to feel validated. So I was like, you know, let me just pivot this into a safe space for social media managers. And it worked. And I just I shared quick little stories about something that helped me get a client's content to do well, how I make money in my business, how I've scaled my business, all sorts of things, and a lot of behind the scenes content that was just very organic and very. I would literally pick my phone. Like what I want to say right now to a social media manager and would just say it, post it, and it would go viral and was like, This is insane.
I started about six months back in September was when really started showing up on TikTok and the opt ins to my funnel were just going and I was like, This is wild.
Were you telling people to go to the link in your bar? I mean, I know that there the algorithm is wonky about that.
Yeah. That's what's so crazy is I didn't tell anyone. And the one time I did it performed terribly. Says like, I'm not going to say it. People know where to go. Yeah, people on TikTok are a lot more social media savvy. Sure. So they just know like, Oh, I'm going to go click in my funnel. It was just it was just crazy. And it just I'll get people on the comments saying, how do I get because there was one video I did again, I didn't care how many views I got. I was like, I'm just going to share this. If it helps one person a day. Perfect. And I think everyone should go into social media with that mindset.
I was like, If this helps someone and it went bananas and all these people, and it was just a suggestion I gave a social media manager was like, You should do this to add more revenue. And I just told them what I told her. And I was like, I shared this in my private community for social media managers and everyone in the comments is like, How do I get in your community? How do I get in? And I'm like, You got to buy my course. And then they, you know, I was like, It's in the link. So I would tell them in the comments, it's in the link. They would go and the purchases started coming.
So you're just organically talking about it naturally. Talking about it.
Yeah, super. Very naturally talking about it.
So you just picking up your phone and saying, what would I want to say to a social media manager today? That's it. And you just like you just start recording that. I feel like that goes against a lot of what is talked about, where it needs to have a lot of cuts and a lot of editing and you know, you got to have SEO related words on the on your on your video, maybe hidden off the screen and all this other stuff.
Right. Are you doing those types of things with the video?
I will say I'm making sure my cover photo always says something about social media manager because I have her. The cover photo on TikTok is also very important with the word the keywords you use. Sure. I also make sure my keywords are in the caption. I keep a very short and sweet caption TikTok, but I make sure to mention social media manager, maybe business, maybe content. I'll use words like that, and I often will put a hook over my head when I'm talking for real quick just to grab them. Yeah, but that's about it. Yeah. Didn't really I honestly and I'm being very obvious I did not look at any tips because I was just like I don't want to follow any tactic. I just want to see what happens. And obviously I would share some tiktoks over to my Instagram every once in a while. Go, Hey, if you're a social media manager, come on over here. And that helped bring some people too, but had a couple go viral and they just I mean, it was so cool because it was people that did not know me on Instagram at all.
Yeah, like she was this girl. But I would just share random tip. But yeah, there's I mean you definitely keywords are important but I really didn't get into the quick cuts. I really didn't do any of the major editing. I did a lot of empathy, a lot of. Tiny, educational, like tiny things like, oh, this is a this is what I use to send out a contract, right? Like things like that that are very basic that they can implement right away. Yeah. And then I would do the funny trends to kind of poke fun at the industry because we're, we're all just like screaming every day, like, gosh darn it, there's always something. And I'm like, What can I say to make them laugh and feel like they're not alone? And that's those are the three that I started nailing. And I just kept going, going, going. And then think the magic of talking to stories like, Hey, I was just in my Facebook group explaining and people are so excited about it and done enough.
And I just it's storytelling. That's it, you know, and and I would just put it up nothing crazy. I'd use the closed captions, right. In case you weren't listening. And that was it. And it's just wild. The algorithm over there is very wild. I know people are saying it's harder and harder to get views on TikTok. Everyone's saying it's like. But I'm like, I'm not. I'm not seeing that. Yeah, it just I know my people. I know what they need to hear what they want.
So you mentioned. So I want to come back to that point right there, because I feel like that's. I mean, you're saying it, but you're not. Like what I hear you saying is, you know, your target audience so well, You know what they want. You know what's going to be helpful for them. And you're just like, all right, I'm going to talk to, you know, Amber, the social media manager, and that's it.
Like, I'm just going to as if I'm talking to one person. Yep.
And that's what I do on Instagram, too, in a way. I know my people so well, but also I've gotten to know them over seven, eight years. So, you know, I don't I don't think anyone goes into this knowing them unless they've been in business a long, long time. But, you know, I think a lot of people, they get lost in the noise of, you got to do this, you got to do this. And like no one's saying you got to do the market research. Like you're just saying you got to create. And I'm like, But if you're creating stuff that's not resonating, it does it land. It's for it's for it's for nothing. So luckily as a social media manager, very easy for me to talk to my people because I've been through it. Yeah. And then for Instagram, I know why people because they are stressed and overwhelmed. So I talked to them one way and I talked to the social media managers a different way on TikTok.
So so Instagram. Yeah, Instagram is a whole nother beast. But they are they are very similar in the fact that people just want to be heard, seeing validated. Yeah. And feel connected to you.
That's it. And you're still speaking to social media managers on Instagram?
Not really. No. Business owners.
In general. Different. Okay.
Got it. Yes.
Yes, yes. Now, one might say that's a whole that's like a lot of work. Would you agree?
I think it is. But again, like I said, I treat TikTok very much like, well, the good thing is I have so much content for social media managers. Yeah, because I've got stories for days. I've got I see. I've got social proof for days. I've got it's all from the course they have. And I really just repurposed a lot. I repurposed blog posts, I've written tweets, I've written everything I do on TikTok. I've said before. And with TikTok again, I literally told myself, if it takes me more than five minutes to create a TikTok, I'm not doing it.
Now. Again, content creation comes very natural to me. It lights me up. Yeah, it doesn't light everyone up, but I work very I literally don't know if it's going to help anyone. I hope it does. If you're in a Twitter, I will. I don't have a big following on Twitter. I use it as my brain dump because I could use you could use notes, you'd use Google Docs ever. It is write it down. And if I have a thought, I'll just tweet it usually and then I'll screenshot it and make it a LinkedIn post. I'll take it, expand on it, make it an email, and then on Instagram I'll make it whatever real carousel posts. And then on TikTok, almost just take the tweet and that's it. So everything I do is repurposed everything I do. I've said a million more. I tell everyone I'm like, Repetition is so key these days. I don't know if we would have even said that years ago. We would have said Yeah, but we would have said, Don't repeat yourself all the time, just right.
But now I'm like, Repeat yourself all the time because we're so overwhelmed. So with TikTok, I really just say the same things all the time. And then I share simple, simple stories that I can just blurt out, like talking to a friend for coffee.
How long is the like generally everybody wants to always wants to know, like how long should the videos be on TikTok? Well, what are your thoughts there?
I do think people are much more inclined to watch longer videos. They're Instagram. I think we still want super bite sized. Yeah. And TikTok continues to lengthen. And I keep telling everyone I'm like, Tik Tok to me is not Instagram's competitor. It's YouTube. I think TikTok is way more like YouTube. I go to TikTok for dinner recipes, toddler trends, tantrum strategies. Yeah, I go there for hair makeup. I have learned so much on TikTok because I love YouTube, but like, it's you know, it's easier for me to pick up TikTok. Go Yeah.
And everything on TikTok is way more evergreen than it is on Instagram. So I just I truly think TikTok is more of like a YouTube, So don't be afraid to go longer. But you just you got to keep their attention. And, you know, that's all by storytelling is a great way to keep their attention. I do a lot of storytelling where I start out with a funny story that everyone can attach to, whether it's about my kid or about being stuck in traffic, don't know whatever. And then I'll segue to just like that and then I segue into business. And that keeps people watching. Folks are obviously important, but yeah, people are definitely watching longer and longer videos on TikTok, and TikTok is actually loving that because it just makes them more money.
Sure. Now, when you say longer on TikTok, what are we talking here?
Like I, I hear people I don't think I'd ever go longer than two minutes. Okay. But that's just me. Yeah, but yeah, I've had a few of mine, too.
Well, and they're well over 90s or they're around 92nd mark. Gotcha. I try to keep the story itself around 30s and then the last minute I focus on what the lesson is or if I'm doing a quick tutorial, I keep this like within three seconds, like you got three seconds anyway to get them. And then yeah, so I mean the goal is bite size and then you can repurpose it onto YouTube shorts. I've actually shared some one of my tiktoks recently I shared on LinkedIn and it went viral for me because I don't have a big LinkedIn audience. And I was like, Oh my gosh. And it was just a repurposed TikTok and it was around 90s.
So that's one of the question that people have is like, Can I, you know, especially for Instagram, right? So like, can I take this TikTok video and put it over on reels, for example? Yep. But I've heard sort of differing things more recently and we're recording this the middle of April. Is that okay now?
Yeah, I've done it several times.
I mean, okay. Like from an algorithmic algorithm standpoint. Okay.
Yes, I will say I had one of my tiktoks cool viral ish and then I put it on Instagram. Same thing. I changed the messaging a tiny bit. Yeah. And both did so well. So I, you know, they're all like, Instagram can tell it was originally created in TikTok. Like they just don't want the watermark. They have come out and said that they're like, we don't just don't use the watermark. So I use actually make sure I use save talk, save. Okay. Okay. And you literally just paste your URL of the TikTok video download it and the watermarks got and then what I do because I'm just this is just a preference thing I don't want anyone to be like Shannon said, you have to use Instagram text. I'm just I love or I don't like going on TikTok and Instagram text text fonts. And then going on Instagram, seeing TikTok fonts. And we are there are two very different spaces, but I'm also one of those people who's like, Well, maybe it will perform better if it is Instagram, native texts like they haven't come out and said that, but I have a feeling it will.
So what I do once I download it from Save Tik Watermark is gone. So there's no TikTok watermark. And then I put it on Instagram and then I put what I want to say right over the text that was from TikTok. So now it's Instagram, native fonts on it, if that makes sense. So it looks like an Instagram reel. Is it simple?
Save Tik or save talk, Save tech.
Have both. Actually. I like same talk better. It's a little. It's just. It's so easy.
Wait, there's another one called Save Tick?
Is it the save company?
Actually, Wait a minute. Let me make sure I'd save tick that I use. Hold on. I don't know which it is, actually. Now I'm like, Shoot, Which one do I use? No. So have both of them. Save, talk and save Tick. I'm sure both are fine.
But same talk is the one that removes the logo.
Both of them do both.
Because again, I go in and test them all out. I have both on my phone. So I'm assuming now, like which when do I hear they're both so both. But no, either one will work.
So you mentioned earlier trends now. You mentioned like this is part like one of your three things that you kind of focus on in terms of like the types of videos that you do. Now, I've also heard that in order to build a following that is, you know, your quote unquote, right audience that you want to be serving that maybe to maybe the odd trend here and there doing that, but maybe not making it part of your normal sort of routine. But you're doing that and it's working.
Yeah. Well, and it literally comes down to your audience again. Yeah. I tell everyone, I'm like, I know people who do not do reels at all at all because they know they're people like static posts and carousel posts. It really comes down here, people. And it's funny, one of my clients lately we've been doing reels and it's just like not hitting.
I'm like, This is not what I think here. People are photo people. I think they're carousel post people and it really just depends on your audience. That's why I'm like, test, test, test. I am just a goofball and I love laughing with people. I love making silly trending reels. So if that is part of your personality, do it. If it's not, do not do it because it's gonna it's just not going to work.
So are you are you making fun of. And I kind of love this. Are you making fun of other social media managers or are you making fun of, like, clients like us, for example, who are. Yeah, because, like, I was like, I'd be like, That makes complete sense.
Yeah, I do a little both. I kind of make fun of us because I'm, you know, as a social media manager, you know, like we expect applause for like, you know, we like, did what about like, us expecting our clients to cheer when we create something and they're just like, yeah, it looks good.
Thumbs up by, you know, and like poke fun at us, like wanting the validation because we all joke about that. Sure. But when it comes to the client, I put a lot of fun at clients because.
As I think you should.
Yeah, I say what my clients know. They already know and, you know, have very lots of boundaries in place so that they know exactly what to expect from me. And I didn't have that for a long time. So I poke fun at that. Yeah. What I poke fun a lot at and this is and I make sure to tell people like if you don't realize this, it's fine. Social media management is still a newish industry, but even this morning post I post one about like when someone thinks like they can get this that that that for 1000 a month right and a lot of people in the comments will be like oh that's really generous. And I'll be like, you guys don't understand. I'm like, look, I get that you think that, but we don't just put little squares on the Internet and call it a day, you know? And it's I tell the social media managers in my community and on TikTok all the time, I'm like, we've got to educate people on what we do because they do think it's something their 12 year old could do for them.
And while they could, it won't get the results because, you know, but I usually poke fun at that. But I also I'm not trying to be meme. I'm also trying to educate people that what we do is actually a lot more valuable than people think. But yeah, usually poking fun at people that hire social media managers. And then on Instagram I poke fun at basically overwhelmed business owners trying to do reels and, you know, like and then they're always like, Oh, that's me, that's me. So it's like, really think when you're want to know your audience, it's like, what will they go, Oh my God, that's me. That's so embarrassing. Caught, you know, things that will make them go. I feel attacked, you know, like smart people love that stuff. We love to be called out in a loving way like it.
It's obviously working. It's obviously working for you.
Yeah, but like I said, I don't just do trends all the time because right then I'd be a real trend coach that's not or a TikTok coach.
It's just I like to mix it up so that, you know, they're laughing their crap because they're educated all the good they like. All of it just kind of comes together.
So the other question that and I want to I want to kind of break down your TikTok funnel here in just a second. The other people the other question that people always ask is, how often do I need to post? What are your thoughts there?
I definitely which is kind of crazy. I post more on TikTok, like I said, I. I put a lot of thought into my Instagram content, and I think everyone should put a lot of thought into all of their content. But I think the reason I'm able to create so much TikTok content is because I'm basically making fun of my journey, which is really easy to create content about the things you've been through. So if I hear something or I think of something, I'll just be sitting here like, you know, I want to say this right now. If someone puts me in the Facebook group like my client did this, I'm like, Well, I got to make a TikTok about this, you know? It's just I'm very intertwined with the social media management manager community.
So for me, it's easy to really crank out a fast TikTok. Yeah, Instagram, I know a lot like Instagram is a beast and people are very overwhelmed. So I had to be very a lot more careful when I create Instagram content to make sure I'm very clear, very concise. So it's different. So Instagram, I post about 3 to 4 times a week. TikTok I'm doing probably between 5 and 7. I don't post on the weekends. That's a hard no for me. Yeah, but sometimes I'll post three because I'm just feeling really creative and then some days I'll just post one. But I'm usually doing I'm usually doing at least once, once a day during the week and then take the week off.
So what I like about this is like, as you mentioned before, like I didn't want to you said that you didn't want to look at the tips and stuff like that. You're just doing what feels good to you.
Yes, exactly. And it's and again, it's working. It's working.
Yeah. I don't think any of this stuff out there is true because, again, I'm behind the scenes on other people's accounts that I manage. When the people are saying a lot of this stuff, they're saying, I'm like, That's not true in TikTok. I'm only managing my own. So I really feel like can't give tips about how to do TikTok because it's just me. I'm just playing around so I can tell people what I'm doing. But I'm not a TikTok strategist, but I definitely know if you just show up and repurpose stuff that's already working and just for the heck of it, just to see what happens, it might blow up and you might make a lot of money.
So forget before you when you said you keep your captions. Sure do use hashtags.
I do. Okay. Now, I did read lessons better on TikTok, and I think it's because it is more of like an SEO type app less than a social media app. And that's just my opinion. But I use about 4 to 5 usually.
On TikTok and I, I keep them very niche to just social media managers, social media managers, social media managers of TikTok. Like I keep it very just almost the same ones almost every time. Just make sure I'm getting in front of the same people. And it was funny. Some person wrote a mine a while ago when I first started sharing content, I was like, Yay! She was, Oh, look, you mean it's a social media manager, TikTok? So I was like, I made it in the, you know, finally the algorithm pushed me in front of my people and was like, okay, we got this. And I didn't want to confuse it. So I just keep kind of sharing the same stuff.
How long did it take you to to get pushed in front of your exact audience?
I think it was only like a month because September September was when I finally was like, okay, I'm going to actually do this because I was just throwing random stuff that I'm like about my kids, about social media, about whatever.
And I was like, in September, I was like, No, I'm going to do this because I need to make some money on this course and because I know people need it. Yeah. And I'm just too exhausted to talk about it on Instagram anymore. I was like, It's just, you know, my people don't want that. They want something else. Yeah. So September and then about mid-October is when the opt in started. Okay, jumping.
So. So what is the funnel look like on from from TikTok And and just to just to kind of recap what you said earlier, you're not necessarily telling people to go to the link. You're just they're more social media savvy, especially since your audience is social media managers. Yes. They know and you're talking about it just naturally, organically in your in your videos. They're like, Holy cow, where do I get this? So is it is it video to an opt in to So what does the funnel look like?
It is a free lesson from my course.
Okay. And then they go into the funnel. There's about there's like seven. And well, there's about seven emails and they do get a coupon code. Okay. For 200 off the course. So they watch one lesson and then they get a series of emails. There is a tripwire for a welcome packet as well, which I get a lot of hits on that, which has been great also. Okay. My welcome packet templates. And then after that they're just in my email list so they continue to just get emails for me if they want to. But yeah, the, the lesson is based on discovery calls because that's one of the things I know social media managers really struggle with, like identifying those red flags from the jump and how to get them to actually want to work with you that day rather than go see you for a month. So that's again, that was all a lot of market research years ago, once everything was good. So that's another thing, just I think having a funnel that's locked down and loaded and ready.
Yeah. Because if they start coming in, you want something for them to work.
How much is the what was the tripwire that you said? How much is that?
$27. 27. Welcome Packet.
Okay. The welcome packet that social media managers can use with it.
Yes, it's a template. Gotcha.
Okay. And then then they go into the emails. You said ish. Seven emails. Yeah. Over what period of time?
Over a week.
Over a week. Okay. $200 off the course. The course is for social media managers. Yes. And how much is the course without the $200 off?
It's 9.97. Okay.
And you're selling you're selling quite a few through this.
Yeah. This one on my numbers. I just preach it.
Over the past six months, that is, or seven months, we had over 400 opt ins. Okay. 30 purchases in about 20 in revenue.
And again, that's organic. Meaning I should be tracking which I'm spending on TikTok, but I do not I said my number one rule because if it takes me more than five minutes to do a TikTok account, do it because, yeah, it wasn't going to work.
I wasn't going to be like, Oh, I spent all this time. And so, yeah, I think it's been for me to see 20 cases happening from posting these silly videos that make me happy. I'm like, not too sure.
Yeah. I mean, I think, I think the big. I think the huge lesson here is knowing your target audience and like we all talk about that, you know, till we're blue in the face. But it's so true and you obviously know your exact target audience and you're just like you're just keeping it light. Like you're not yeah, like have this very stringent, you know, strategy for like, okay, I have to post this time and I have to look at, you know, all this other stuff. You're just doing what comes up for you. Yeah. And it's working.
I really tell people a lot. I'm like, if you're not having fun or enjoying it, we can tell. And I think, again, like I put minimum effort into this just because I really wanted to test something out, because if you ask me about Instagram, I spent a lot of time, but that's also because I love it too.
But it also proves if you've done the back work and you have everything set up, you don't have to. Your content strategy does not have to take hours every week. It just doesn't. So everything's ready.
Is there anybody. Is there any type of business that you think. Because, you know, there's this. Prevalent thought that the only young audience on TikTok. My guess is that the social media. Social media manager that you're speaking to aren't in that super young audience. So are there types of businesses that maybe are not right for TikTok that you think?
You know, I don't think so. And I know a lot of older people that I know that like because I'm 40 and all my neighbors, a lot of them are older and they're on TikTok. They're sending me tiktoks. They're in their 60s like, it's you on TikTok. So I don't think that's really the case. And I will say I do think I know. A funny story about me is I hate online shopping. Like I hate it.
I like to I'm a something that needs to go to the mall. I need to feel it, touch it, try it on, even mean everything. Ever since TikTok. And unfortunately for my husband, since for the past six months since I've been going big on TikTok, like there's things all the time being delivered. Yeah. So I'm like Tik. The whole TikTok made me buy. It is very like I did not have an Amazon account until I joined until I started showing up on TikTok regularly. And I was like, Well, guess now I need an Amazon account. Because all these things that people are showing me are from Amazon and it's it's a problem. But the thing is, that's why I'm like products especially like if you sell a products like you are missing out big time because TikTok people really want to experience what the product looks like. We are consumers at the end of the day, and everyone on TikTok are big time consumers. I think we're searching for things to buy. It'll be interesting as it grows older to get all those stats.
But, you know, I think it is it's obviously younger, but I see more and more people that are older getting on it because they know the opportunity that lies in front of them. But I will say I've even because my clients are all over the place, I mean, have photographers, I have a brewery, real estate agents. And I just I mean, you can go on there and find like a trucking company with millions of followers. Yeah. I one time looked up a plumber just for fun because I was like, you know, who wants millions of followers? Plumbers. So, you know, and they're just showing, like little bite sized tips. And I mean, I don't know if there's a plumber on TikTok with a million followers. Wanted to be my my plumber. It's like I really don't think. But again, it comes. Like I hate to say this, but like, don't I know everyone says about like, don't overthink it. Like, it's it's such a cliche thing to say, but the less you overthink it, the better.
The second you start overthinking it, the joy and excitement you had about that topic is out the window. It's gone and it's not going to perform.
As all my listeners can attest to. I've been overthinking it for probably two years now.
But so was I because I joined TikTok and during the pandemic. Yeah, overthought it, overthought it, and was like, I hate it. And I literally I'm sure I've said to people, oh, I'm not. I'm never doing it. And finally I was like, you know what? If I just talk to my people, I might actually enjoy it. So maybe it's just what you're creating content around isn't, you know? Yeah. As exciting. Or again, it's like we overthink it because we're like, we see all the other people in our industry doing it. Just do it your way. Yeah.
Are there, are there any other TikTok funnels that you've seen that have worked that are working really well?
Not that I know it because, again, I'm not really in the TikTok community, but for anyone who's listening that might have like a blog where they have like Amazon storefronts, I mean, those Amazon storefronts on TikTok are wild.
And I know for a fact these people are making a lot of money because they're just showing it's funny. Like, I love this, too. It's like, here's what I do every day. Here are the five tools I use every day as a lawyer, right? And she's a lawyer and she's showing her plan or she showed. And I mean, she's like, it's all my Amazon storefront. And I'm like, genius. Yeah, genius. And she's probably making so much money off that. So even if, you know, I know a lot of us are like, I'm not an influencer, I'm not an influencer. It's almost like you've got to treat it as if you are an influencer and like, just don't think of it as influencer like you are. You're just giving suggestions of what to buy like for you. You know, here's the three things I could never live without as a podcaster and anyone starting a podcast and go, Oh crap, let me go buy it right now and we're going to fill our cart.
I thought about doing I know I have done before, but you know, tools I love but even showing a morning routine with like my ring light my this I know people are going to ask what it is and I'm like, Well, maybe I should have an Amazon storefront.
Do you have an Amazon storefront yet?
I don't, but I'm like, I think I need to do it because I have found my ring light and my tripod and everything from TikTok. Like I didn't even have a ring, like a little ring light until because I was just a window girl. I'll just post it from the window.
So it's just funny. It's just like we all just love hearing suggestions of what to buy from people we trust. So even if it's not the products you necessarily sell, you can still have some sort of funnel that way, which is kind of cool.
I mean, I'm in the same boat I love. I actually like TikTok a lot. I do not like Instagram just personally.
I think a lot of people are in that boat right now.
Yeah, because I just TikTok to me and I've talked about it here on the podcast before like it feels lighter to me. I actually laugh. I learned things, you know, like my wife shared my wife loves TikTok and she's she's she's posting she's an online on line coach and she's starting to blow up over there, too, after a long time. She's like, Yeah, but anyway, like she shares like these videos with me. Like there's a powerlifter who dresses up as a janitor a lot and he'll go into like, gyms where these huge guys lifting massive amounts of weights and he's like, you know, he like, interrupts them to like, mop the floor. Oh, my God. And then he, like, picks up the bar and like, moves it with all these plates on it and they just is hilarious. I just, you know, like that. Yeah. That's entertaining to me. Like, that's really fun.
It is. So like, it disrupts, you know, normal stuff. It's just, I don't know. And I personally, I love Instagram. Yeah. But a lot of the reasons I think a lot of people are turned off is because it went from personal to then business. Business, business. Yeah. And everyone's like, they miss the light, they miss the lighter side of Instagram and but I do see it coming back and I think it's because of the influence of TikTok that what does so well for everyone and again even for you like I would say do content about I've done several videos like this, like here's my morning routine as a social media manager. Here's how I shoot content as a social media manager. Because what a lot of people have missed and forgotten is that behind the scenes content is the most incredible thing. An important thing you could share today is like, Here's how I send out notes as a blah blah blah. Like we are fascinated by each other's processes. And it's it's just it's it's so simple.
It's the simplest stuff that I'll put up. And I'm like, that.
What the hell?
Like, that was way more insightful, but okay. But we just want, like, little things. We want it. We're obsessed with seeing each other's routines. And I actually tested a recent video out because now the new trend on TikTok is when you are doing those little vlogs or like, here's my morning routine, come to the gym with me as a bop, bop, bop, make lunches with me as a here's what's in my lunch as a whatever. Like those. It's like we've put the I in the knee back into content what it used to be like you you, you you. Yeah. Because of the magic of short form video is like you can do. Here's what I do. Here's me, me, me. And then in the caption you say, And here's how you can do it together. Here's what I want for you. And then now you're still making them the hero, but you're giving them this behind the scenes look.
And that's what I see on TikTok going crazy. But what's really cool is a lot of times now they don't even have audio. I'm sorry, They just don't have sound music. And it's just this like natural sounds of the person getting ready, like at the gym. It would be like the actual there's no music. It's just, yeah, it's really fascinating. So it's like it's getting more and more organic as time goes on and more and more natural. Guess like little edits, little. It's just very fascinating to me to watch because I'm a nerd, like not. But I mean, if you just take people along on the journey, it's literally what I did eight years ago as. A social media manager to get booked out. I just shared my journey. I barely shared tips, barely. I just talked about what I was doing every day and people were like, Well, can you do that for me too? And I was like, Sure. And so we're going back there. I feel.
It. I like it. It's so true. Like everybody wants I'm interested, you know, like if I see somebody that, you know, I trust or whatever, and they're talking about something that they do or how they do it, I'm like, Oh, I'm interested. I want to watch that. So yeah, I like it. So I have to ask.
Even if it doesn't, you just send it to other people, you know, it's like, Oh, this would be helpful for someone.
Exactly. Yeah. So before we wrap up, I have to ask this question. This question comes up all the time with my. This has nothing to do with TikTok. Okay? Social media management. Look. Okay. And maybe you could use this to make fun of.
So my students always want to know, how do I give meaningful KPIs to a social media manager?
Oh, that's good.
What is your thought on that as a social media manager, as somebody who, you know, teaches other social media managers, what would you say to, you know, an online course creator, membership creator or coach or what have you? This is how to set your social media manager up for success so that they're helping you achieve your goals.
I love this question. Okay. So, you know, we're not responsible for sales as much as people hate to hear that, that's a big one that I do on TikTok. But so while you can't put sales, I think even little things like obviously engagement rate is a big one because the algorithm judges you on that on your engagement. Yeah. So there's calculators you can use mine for free. Just type an engagement rate calculator. So that would be a big KPI like, you know, really aim for like, let's say your engagement rates right now at 2%. You know, aim for 3 or 4. Now the average engagement rate on Instagram for under 10,000 I think is around 5%. The more followers you get, that rate goes way down. So that would be one. So my main thing for the social media manager would be the engagement rate. So if a real don't do math rec, I'm sorry. That's why we.
Have online calculators.
Real gets 10,000 views. Yeah you want like about 5% of that to translate to likes because a lot of people are like this real did really well and like did it.
It got views, but no one was liking it. So I would aim for engagement around posts to be between 3 and 5%. I think that'd be a really good indicator because what the social media manager's job is, is engagement. Yeah, it's at the end of the day, it's to get people to like it, get people to comment, get people save and share. And if they're doing the right call to actions, the right hooks, the right content, you're gonna get engagement up. So that would be the main thing is to really engagement based on posts and overall accounts. Followers get tricky because it really just depends. Yeah. But I would just say just make sure that's always in the green and I think response time, I think even though most of us don't work on the weekends, if I was hired social media manager for myself and they were in charge of the DMS, now I have a larger following. Don't expect the social media manager to get to them and you know, immediately.
But we have clients with like around 1000 followers and we make sure to get back to them within 48 hours. Okay. So those are I think would be the main things. It's response time engagement rates, trying to think about others. Obviously website clicks because if I notice our clients are getting no website clicks, we obviously have to adjust the call to action. That's our that is our fault. Yeah, the funnel might not be good. That's not our fault. Right. But so make sure that we're seeing what and it's really fascinating if you follow really successful people on Instagram that are killing it and growing, look at what call it actions for you saying because obviously it's getting people to share save comment purchase. Yeah so just see what and you know kind of mimic it but and then the other thing would also just be to really like which I don't know this would be kind of tough to do but like really make sure they're keeping up with the trends and that because it's so fast and I'll say this right now, I don't want to upset any social media managers or anyone that might work with you too.
I'm like scared even say it. But if someone's planning your content 30 days in advance at this point, that's like I would just know that's not working. It's so fast. We do about two, we do about two weeks, but we can't tell. Obviously some content is just evergreen carousel post. Sure. But reels like I do not know. Don't touch them until because we want to make sure it's turning well and make sure it's relevance. Yeah. But yeah, those are the big ones that would I would look at because those you can actually and obviously if they're every Monday being like, hey here's two really good reels ideas that are. You know. So we have the charts right now. Yeah. You want to be sure they know that they keep up.
And you mentioned the key thing there, I think for for. I mean, that pops into my head a lot with our with our students as the website visits. You know, is the content getting people to take action, get them over to, you know, the website or the landing page or what have you.
And then just to reiterate, what you said is you social media managers can't control how well the funnel is doing. Right? But you can look at, you know, would you say that like the a number of leads, let's just say per quarter is a viable KPI?
I like that. Yeah, and maybe it could even be something where, like, they might even get, like, a little bonus. Yeah, if you will. Like, it could be a Starbucks card, you know, just something to make them feel special and want to, you know, because your success is our success. Yeah. And no, I like that. Plus, again, that will make sure. They're not just using a random CTA. It's like they need to be thoughtful about the CTA they're using. Like it is our job to lead people there, or at least in the DMS. Yeah, but it also could be, you know, if they're still not if it's not clicking, maybe it's a link tree and the link tree's too crowded.
Like that is something that's not a social media manager's job per se, but it's something I would definitely. Like that's a good sign of a good social media manager. If they're like, “You know what? I don't think it's actually the funnel. It could just be the link tree's crowded and they're overwhelmed.” Yeah, yeah. Stuff like that. Like it. I think it'll be cool. Yeah.
Where it could be.
More of, like, a bonus.
I like that. I like that. And you said two. It doesn't have to be anything. Like, maybe it's just a Starbucks gift card or something like that. Yeah. Just to show your appreciation and let them know that this is not. You're not taking it for granted sort of thing. Yes.
Where can people connect with you? Because I know they're going to want to come see this in action.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm mainly active on Instagram. Okay. And TikTok. And that's the thing.
Even though I post a lot, I'm not very about liquor. But if you want to get in touch with me, definitely Instagram. And then of course, my website is just Shannon McKinstrie.com. I'm also very active on LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn. Yeah, on Twitter. But Instagram's my.
That's your main.
My heart and soul. Yeah, that's where I am all day long.
And you have a membership and you have a guide about growing on Instagram. Talk about those two things.
So the guide is a great place to start. If you're listening, you're like, “I just, I'm so frustrated. I'm going to pull my hair out. It's like a square one. Let's start. Here's how the algorithm works. Here's what your bio needs to do and break down what types of pillars, what it should look like, along with examples, lots of clickable links in there.” It really dissects the algorithm and knowing your audience. That is $37, and I'm actually releasing it by the time this airs, there will probably be a spring version.
So almost every quarter, I update it, and anyone who's purchased gets the new version. Oh, cool. So at no additional cost. And the membership is all female entrepreneurs. We work, we have all sorts of different product-based, service-based business owners. We just kind of cut through the noise and we give them caption templates every month, and we do a live Q&A every month and a masterclass every month. So we basically get all their content needs covered, and there's a Facebook group there as well. So if you want more support and want my eyes on your account, the Social Squad Society is a great place to be for that.
Social Squad Society, that's not just for business owners, not just for social media managers. Exactly.
There are some social media managers in there, but we have realtors, boutique shop owners, dentists, accountants. It's a very wide range of female entrepreneurs.
Awesome. So that's Social Squad Society. Your website is ShannonMcKinstrie.com. I'll link everything up in the show notes for today's episode. How to connect with freebies on there, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, and everything like that. Shannon, thank you so much. I learned a lot here during this episode, and I'm so glad.
Thank you for having me. This is a lot of fun.
All right. Hope you got a ton out of this interview here with Shannon. Again, I've linked all the links up that we talked about over on the show notes for today's episode, which is over at my website, rickmulready.com. Make sure you connect with Shannon. Let her know that you heard her here on the podcast. And also, if you haven't already, please leave a quick rating and review for the show over on Apple Podcasts. It's super helpful for the show, and make sure to subscribe to the podcast wherever you're listening, whether it's on Apple Podcasts or clicking that follow button on Spotify or whatever platform. I appreciate that in advance, and thank you as always for tuning in today. Appreciate you. And until next time, be well, and I'll chat with you soon.