As business owners, we should be building our businesses around our life, not the other way around, but perfectionism can make that hard. Many of us end up working way more hours than we would like because we struggle to let go of certain tasks.
In today’s episode of Art of Online Business, I sat down with Ashley Gartland to talk about how you can start to create more time freedom in your business so that you can do more by doing less and achieve your version of success.
Ashley Gartland helps small business owners set a time freedom goal for their business and identify the shifts and solutions that will help them achieve it so they can make time for what’s most important. She’s all about taking a subtractive approach to business and finding ways to do less, better—and not so her clients can be more productive but rather so they can live more rich, fulfilling lives.
Ashley is the host of the Better Than Big podcast, where she talks with small business owners about the ways they’ve created more time freedom and flexibility in their businesses. Ashley runs her sustainable coaching practice in 25 hours (or less) a week, leaving her plenty of time to enjoy what’s most important to her including long trail runs, good books, and lots of family time.
Less is more when it comes to achieving time freedom. By setting your priorities and determining what success looks like for you, you can work your way toward the time freedom that you want without your business suffering.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- Why you need to determine your own version of success
- How to look at your business from a life-first perspective
- How to establish systems to free up time
- Mindset tips for overcoming perfectionism
- Hiring tips to help free up your time
- Tips for finding your next team member
- How to decide what to keep in your business and what to delegate
Links & Resources:
- The Art of Online Business website
- DM me on Instagram
- Visit my YouTube channel
- The Art of Online Business clips on YouTube
- Full episodes of The Art of Online Business Podcast on YouTube
- The Art of Online Business Podcast website
- Check out my Accelerator coaching program
*Disclosure: I only recommend products I use and love and all opinions expressed here are my own. This post may contain affiliate links that at no additional cost to you, I may earn a small commission.
Ashley Gartland’s Links:
- Follow Ashley on Instagram
- Connect with Ashley on LinkedIn
- Listen to the Better Than Big podcast
- Get the Do Less Live More audio course
- Visit Ashley’s website
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Simplicity scales, my friends. And to scale your business and keep your sanity in the process, you have to optimize different areas of your business. Those three areas are your sales and marketing, your time and your mindset. When I say time, we’re talking systems and processes. So when it comes to optimizing your sales and marketing, this is so that you can build a sustainable, profitable business that provides you, your family and your team with the lives that you want to live, right? When it comes to systems and processes, optimizing them allows you to live life on your terms because then you have a business that works even when you don’t, and then when it comes to optimizing your mindset. So even when not if, when life and business challenges creep in, you’ve got the tools that you need to stay mentally strong, healthy and confident. These are the types of things that we help you do inside of our accelerator coaching program. We’re all about helping you create more profit, more impact with less hustle. Accelerator is for more established online course creators and coaches or teacher entrepreneurs who want to scale and take their business to the next level but want to create a version of success that is right for you and it’s application only. We are accepting applications ongoing, so if you want to learn more and apply, go to Rick Mueller. Radio.com Forward slash accelerator. All right, let’s dove into today’s episode. Hey, my friend, welcome to the Art of Online Business Podcast. My name is Rick Mullaney and I’m an online business coach. I’m an ad’s expert, and most importantly, I’m a dad.
And this show is where we help established online course creators and coaches create more profit, more impact with less hustle. All right, let’s get into it. What’s up, my friend? Welcome back to the podcast. Thank you as always for tuning in today. So I like to bring on people that shared different vantage points, different viewpoints on doing different things. And my guest today really actually aligns with a lot of how I approach my business and how I how I approach helping our accelerator coaching members. And that is the whole concept of, look, we’re building our business around our life, not the other way around. Ashley Gartland helped small businesses set a time freedom goal for their business, and then once that goal is set, identify the shifts and solutions that will help them achieve it so they can make time for what’s most important to them, right? Whether it’s just taking more time for themselves, whether it’s more time with their family, friends, reading, working out whatever, traveling, whatever it might be, those are the things that’s most important. And it’s about building a business that allows you to do those things. She’s all about taking a subtractive approach. Right. Let’s remove things from the business and finding ways to do less better. I love it talking my language here. So I invited Ashley to come on and just kind of share what how she is built her business. She’s somebody that runs, as she calls it. I love it. A sustainable coaching practice. She works about 25 hours or less a week, leaving plenty of time for her to enjoy things that are most important to her.
Like Long Trail runs, books, and lots of family time. These are the types of things that I want for you as well. These are the types of things that we help our accelerator coaching members with. And so I want to have Ashley to come on to the podcast here today because she helps a lot of different types of small businesses, service providers, some coaches. She uses an example today of like an architect client. She works with a lot of writers and just sharing how she helps her clients set their business up to do more with less and achieve what their version of success looks like and their business because it’s different for everybody. So without further ado, let’s go hang out with Ashley Gartland. All right, Ashley, I just mentioned to you before we hit record of a blank document in front of me, people who have been listening to the show a long time know that I do interviews where I have nothing in front of me. I don’t have like, oh, seven questions that I have to ask or anything like that. This is like you and I sitting down for coffee. We have very similar types of beliefs around business simplicity. I think this can be a really fun conversation. Know a whole less is more, you know, sort of addition by subtraction. So I want to get your thoughts on all of this stuff before we dove into all that. Who’s Ashley Gartland? Yeah, I just had you get to where you are now and what are you doing?
Yeah. So I guess I’ll try and keep this a condensed. Right. I’ve been a business owner my whole life, so I’m one of those rare people who never interviewed anywhere else, just kind of went out and did my own thing. And it was what I can see now is that I made those choices because I always wanted my life to look a certain way. I wanted to have a lot of control over my time and schedule. I wanted to live in a certain place. I live in Portland, Oregon. I wanted to stay here. Like I just I made these decisions to serve my life. And back
then I wouldn’t have noticed that. But now I have the awareness that I have always operated in that way. And so I got my start as a freelance writer, and I did that for about eight years and I did a lot of different things under that umbrella and learned a ton. And I wouldn’t say it was really an online business or a consultancy or anything, you know, it was just it was a pretty standard freelance writing business. And then about eight years in, I got the itch to do something different and started exploring what that might be and eventually stumbled on this mentorship coaching and through that realized I did want to do the coaching. And then it was a few more years of figuring out what is it that I do and what is it that I that’s different about how I approach things and learned that unlike a lot of business coaches who are about let’s do more and more and more and let’s figure out how to get you more productive so you can grow to the next level. I am much more interested in helping people create time, freedom and figure out how to do less. They can run this simple, sustainable business that deeply serves their life.
Now, when you say simple and sustainable, does that look different in your view? Does that look different for everybody? Yes. Sorry. Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead.
I just I think when we look at success, one of the first things I do with my client is I ask what success looks like to you, because I do not like to make the assumption that what my version of success looks like in terms of revenue and hours worked and size of team and, you know, the ambition that I bring to the table. That’s not going to be the same for one of my clients. I have some clients who
are trying to, you know, get to the million dollar business. And I have other clients who are really happy at six figures and staying there. And in both of those cases, they have their reasons for that and they want the business to look that way while also supporting their life.
Yeah, well, I’m so glad because that’s what I was going to say. It’s like success looks different for everybody. And I mean, I talk about it a lot here in the show. It’s pretty well documented over over the years of the show. Here is like for the first four years of the business, I chased what everyone else, you know, I’m using air quotes now fot success as they define success. Like, Oh, it’s seven figures and you’ve made it quote unquote, when you reach seven figures in the business. Very grateful I was able to do that in the first four years. But like how I showed up as a person, what it did to me emotionally, mentally and physically and all that stuff. Relationships in the process really was damaging to me. So what is it for you? What does success look like for you in your business?
Yeah, so I think it’s really important. I love what you brought up there about the revenue figure. Like, I do think the financial piece is important. You’ve got to define what enough looks like for you, what you need your business to contribute to your family, your life. But I also think we’ve got to look at success on broader terms. And so for me, I know business is successful when it’s providing me with the time freedom to pick my kids up at school at 3:00 every day and spend the afternoons with them. It’s knowing that my business doesn’t stress me out so much that I don’t have the brain space to be present for my family or to coach their basketball team. It’s knowing that I don’t really need to start work until 10:00 in the morning. So if I want to go for a walk with my husband or if I want to get out for a run, like that’s all possible with the way I built my business. So I look at it really from this life first perspective of what do I want my business to make possible in my life? And then I’ll look at the financial piece too and ask, How do we design the business to support the lifestyle goals and also the financial goals?
So you’re basically working. You identify, all right, here’s what’s most important, but then you work backwards from there to try to figure out, okay, these are the types of things that we’re going to try to to in order to get there.
Yeah, and I think business is a given. I often have my clients look at their schedule from this life first perspective. And so what I ask them to do is figure out what are their top five priorities. I think most of us have at least that many. A lot of us have maybe too many so scaled down. Like what are really the things that are most essential for your joy and happiness and fulfillment? Business is going to be on there. I know that’s going to be the case for all of my clients. So I asked them what those other four if we popped those into
your schedule at the times that you found were like the most ideal for you to do those activities, then what hours are left for the business and can we design the business to suit those hours? It’s not perfect. It doesn’t always work out that everything is, you know, it needs to go where they want it to. And there are some concessions and trade offs. But generally I find that my clients, if they want to take, have a client who likes to take Japanese lessons in the middle of the week. So we just don’t schedule anything on that day. And she built the business around that. Like you can really figure out what are those needs and wants. Like me starting later in the day and me finishing by three, that’s doable. If I set that intention first and then ask How does the other stuff fit in there?
Are there times where you feel like, well, when, when, when? So just as an example, when I either talk about that exact topic here on the show or, you know, I’m talking with our accelerator members. One of the things that comes up is that’s not possible. And it starts right here, right in, you know. So what would you say to that? How do you approach that with your with your client? Because I’m sure that they you know, they often have the same types of thoughts and beliefs.
Yeah. So I think one thing that’s really, really helpful is to hear that it’s possible for other people. So I’m a big fan of sharing examples and saying, okay, here are some of my other clients and here are some things that I’ve experienced. And here’s what’s been possible for me when I’ve taken this approach, because that plants this little seed, maybe a little seed of doubt for them. And like, maybe the thing I think is it’s actually possible, like they start to question if their assumptions are right. So that’s one thing. The second thing I like is to ask my clients to really approach things with curiosity and kind of that what if perspective. And so if we if I give them a blank calendar and say like, give me your ideal, like, what if we could get you here? And it might not be immediate, but let’s at least get the ideal down on paper and see what that’s like, and then let’s start making small changes to get you there. So for example, one of my clients recently said my weeks would be so much better if I could take Wednesdays off if she wanted to work a four day week, basically. And I said, Which day of the week is best for you? I thought she’d say, Friday or Monday, you know, enjoy that long.
I’m just going to say Wednesday.
Yeah, she goes Wednesday. If I could just reset in the middle of the week on Wednesday, it would be everything to me. And I said, okay, so we’re going to make some different choices in the business to make that possible in terms of when you’re doing things and how we’re setting things up and maybe she’s letting go of some stuff or delegating some more things, but we’re not necessarily going to get Wednesday off right away. But what we might do is move her start time on Wednesdays, or we might get her a half day off on Wednesdays, and then we’re going to keep making those choices to get her there, knowing that that is her end goal.
So believing that it’s possible, seeing other examples of where this is actually happening. So can we actually use that? We don’t have to know who this is or anything like that, but can we use that as an example of like, okay, somebody wants to take Wednesdays off in their business? What are some of the things that you’re helping this person with to Yeah, it’s not going to happen. Like, okay, next Wednesday, we’re good. We’re not working on Wednesdays from now on, but like what are some of the types of things that we can be doing in order to start to make that happen?
Yeah, I mean, this is such a perfect tee up to what my work is about. Like I ask clients right off the bat, What is your time freedom goal? It could be. I know you really focus on the 25 hour week, which has always been my goal for me personally. But some of my clients want, you know, the four day workweek or they want to take the last week off of the month. Or I’ve had two clients this year who want to take a sabbatical. They just want to figure out how do I take a month off in the middle of my business, like the middle of
the year? So we get that goal in place and then we’re going to start making different decisions to orient towards that goal and make it possible. And the places I like to look, I like to look at their schedule and the things that they’re, you know, time management, where they’re wasting time, where they’re losing it. I like to look at their services and maybe most often they’re offering like seven things and maybe just they could offer one or two or within the services. Maybe they’re doing lots of things within those services, and only two or three of the features are useful and the other ones could go and that’s going to free up time. So those are a couple of areas, systems or another area I look at with clients to see where could we streamline things? What are some of the things that you’re doing with people that are universal? And you could just rinse and repeat like record one video instead of a personal video for every person you work with.
Just these little things that people overlook and really will free up your time. So those areas and then team like looking at who could you bring in, whether it’s a contractor or a right hand woman or man like that you could bring on to support you and start delegating some things too to free up your time. And then finally I look at personal habits. I think, you know, like you say, the mindset like the inner work is so important. So many of my clients are working more than they need to because of perfectionism or they have a real need to overdeliver over prepare for things. And when we work on those habits, they’re also able to free up their time. So I just gave you a lot there and we can follow up on any of those things. Yeah, but those are the levers that I like to pull and it’s different for every client. Some people have a really great systems, but no support team. Some people have dialed their services in but have really bad personal habits that are sabotaging their ability to enjoy time, freedom. And we just we look at the different options and we explore and we make different choices.
Let’s talk. Let’s yeah, you’re right. There’s a lot to unpack there. Let’s let’s start with like that, that inner work there, the perfectionism. You know, historically in my business, I haven’t been able to do it. So why should I be able to do it now? That’s it’s one we often hear. So how do we start to overcome those things and that and that mindset? Just as an example, I may I like to say I’m a recovering perfectionism perfectionist, but I’m being honest. It’s still there. Right at the time recording this, I have been saying that I’m going to start my YouTube channel, like my Rick Mulroney YouTube channel for today is January 11th when recording this two and a half months. And if I’m being honest with myself, it is the perfectionist. Like, it’s like this has to be perfect and like, you know, perfect is so subjective, right? And for me, for a while it was like, oh, I don’t have the right backdrop or the lighting or the microphone or the camera or whatever it is. And I’m like, There’s no excuse because I have all that stuff right now. Right? But anyway. I’m like, Okay, I’m at a point now where it’s like, Screw it, I’m just going to do it and I’m excited about it. But with that, so many people like that, we talk about that, we talk that we help an accelerator. And like people who listen and I hear listen to the show that I hear from is that it is the mindset of that is completely holding them back especially of I’m not sure I can do it because I haven’t done it in the past. Right. So how do you broach that subject with with your clients?
So the perfectionism piece is interesting, right? Like, I think what you’re saying is showing up is like someone can’t get themselves to do the thing they say they’re going to do because of the perfectionism. A lot of times where I’m working with clients on is like the perfectionism is making something that should take an hour, take 4 hours, and suddenly they are like working 60 hours a week because because of that. So in either situation, I think you want to be aware that the perfectionism piece is coming up for you. Just practice that and kind of be curious and notice it. And then the next piece is I really like to invite people to decide where they want to be a perfectionist and where they get a little wiggle room to do kind of like the B level work. And I, a client messaged me last week that was like, this is the one thing from our partnership. She’s like, This is the thing that changed everything for me, which is different for everybody. But for her it was like this huge time saving piece and it’s like she can choose to do. She’s a writer, so she might choose to do like perfectionism, you know, above and beyond for her writing. But some of the other stuff that she does in her business, maybe the design, the graphics, the website, like maybe don’t need to be up to that standard. And she can do B-level work there and get a really good product out, you know, whatever it is, and and move the business forward and like make things happen for her without spending too much time.
I like how you put that, like, all right, decide where you’re going to put that focus and decide on what other areas is that. All right. I don’t want to use like let slip as the right way to say that, but like, maybe that doesn’t have to be up to that, a standard that we think everything needs to to to be at. What about the whole like this actually just came up on on our accelerated coaching call yesterday. We were talking to somebody and the whole the whole concept of they had a procedure done recently and it just really kind of gained them, gave them perspective of like, I’m just working way too much period in the business. And they want to step they want to step back and they, they immediately go to team and stuff like that. But we first needed to unpack like, well, how do you want to spend your time? Like what are the types of things that that they want to be doing? And they also felt like all the time that they weren’t doing enough. Do you come across that a lot?
Yeah, the not doing enough is really interesting and so much of my work is around enough, like defining what enough looks like to you in terms of success, but also like what is enough work look like? Like you and I both know you could spend your entire day doing marketing activities just for your business and still not even be tapping into all you could be doing. So I think it’s really clear, you know, I just wrote a newsletter about this as well. Like, you’ve got to understand, like what enough looks like to you in terms of the the effort you want to put into your business in order to get the output that you want. And that doesn’t look like being everywhere. Like if you check out my business, you’ll see I’m not on really hardly any social media channels. Like there’s just but I know what works for me and I know what is going to lead to the results. And so I choose to show up for those things. And like you’re saying with this client, I think it’s really about deciding what are the things that you want to do and what are the things that are going to create the results that you want and then choosing to either let those other tasks go or those other things go, or delegating them to team. I have done both. I don’t think it makes sense to delegate to team if it’s not something that’s benefiting your business, but if it’s something that you just don’t like doing and not a good use of your time, but it does benefit the business, then having someone else take ownership of it makes total sense.
Now with that, you’re absolutely right. I totally agree. Like with that, the whole concept of. Fear of letting go of control. And so that that came up. And that is so common with so many of us, myself included. I’ve really struggled with that over the years. And when, you know, to go back to your client example of I want to take Wednesdays off. There’s going to be a level of letting go of control in some fashion there. Can you speak to that with that specific example in mind?
Yeah. And I’m actually going to throw myself in the story here because I am someone who liked to do everything like my first business. I literally did everything myself. There was zero support other than an accountant. And so I really know what that looks like to want control over everything and not be willing to pass off any detail because you’re worried that some something’s going to get missed or something’s not going to be up to your standards. So I’ve done that, and I worked a hell of a lot more than I do now in that first business. And so in this business, I really had to learn to let things go. And that was not an overnight like flip the switch. Okay, here to give team all these things. It really for me started with, okay, I’m going to find someone to take on a couple of projects with me and I’m going to learn how to build trust in other people doing things for me. And I’m going to learn how to communicate what’s important to me and learn to let go of some of the things that are nitty gritty nuances that are important to me, but maybe aren’t essential for certain projects or stuff, like certain design things or certain copy things that are important to me, but maybe not essential.
So that’s the same thing I help my clients with, you know, this client that wants to take Wednesdays off. She happens to have a lot of team support in her business right now. She needs to learn how to lean on them better and exercise that trust and be able to delegate. She may also need to bring on some different people that she can trust more or that have different skill sets so she can pass some things off. But it is that that edge that you’re working is not necessarily okay. I’m learning to delegate, but I think it’s very true to what you’re saying. It’s I’m learning to trust someone else to do things, learning to communicate my wants and needs to someone else. And that’s not going to be perfect right out of the gate. So I always tell my clients when they’re bringing on support, like expect it to be rocky for the first month or two at least. Yeah, because you’re learning so much about each other, you’re onboarding somebody and teaching them about your business. But you’re also learning so much about how to communicate your own wants and needs. And you’ve got to give yourself time and space to make that happen. And then it gets really good. You just got to like wait for that.
Point if the patient for.
What’s your thought process on hiring? This is a topic that comes up almost every day and I think everybody looks at this a little bit differently. So I’m really curious what your thought is on, you know, and really like the order of hiring, if you will, like, okay, who do I hire next then? Who do I hire?
Mm hmm. I think what I’ve seen a lot is the knee jerk reaction is like, I need to hire a VA or I need to hire an OB. And that was one of my first hires, and it absolutely made sense for my business. But I know for some of my clients, that just doesn’t make sense. So one of the first things I have them do is make a list of all the tasks they do in their business. And it’s a really long list for some people. You know, it goes on to pages and pages and we really make sure that we’ve got it all down. And then we start looking at what are the activities on that list that are draining to them and what are the activities that are energizing the things that are energizing nine times out of ten, they’re going to keep it’s going to be their thing. It’s probably their zone of genius, their expertize like they actually have to be the person doing it. The other stuff we start looking at like, what kind of how can we group these tasks into something where someone else could take it on? So sometimes that is an OBM, you know, a VA, someone who can take on quite a few varied tasks.
But sometimes it’s like, like I have a couple of clients who are designers and it doesn’t make sense for them to hire. Va What they really need is a junior designer to take on some of the lower level design work or to prep files and get them ready for clients to put together presentations like that sort of thing. That’s actually the thing that’s going to free up their time when then hiring a VA to post a social media or something doesn’t actually do the thing they want done. So we really have to look at it. It’s nuanced, right? You’ve got to not make the assumption that what someone else is saying you need is what you need. You’ve got to actually like dig in and look at what you want to delegate and then ask who’s the right person for this? And sometimes it’s a generalist and sometimes it’s a specialist.
How often are you coming across people who are really, quote unquote, successful in their business from a revenue perspective, but they’re just couldn’t be more unhappy and stressed out.
Who are working like the 10 to 14 hour days. And I come across those people a lot because that’s who seeks me out. It’s a lot of my clients are ones who’ve had fast success. You know, they were kind of one of my clients that they were building the train or building laying the tracks while driving the train like. And it was just like very fast because they got they had they’re in an industry where there was a huge demand for their work all of a sudden and the clients came in the door and so they just started receiving and doing things and then they didn’t have a strong business foundation to build on. And so those clients will often just solve that problem by working a ton of being miserable, and they often think that the solution is shut the business down. This is not working. This is not happening. Fulfilling to me or this is the. Cost of doing business. And I just this is what it means to be a business owner is is what people talk about when they talk about hustling. These are my only two options. I want to get them exploring the middle ground, which is keep running the business, but make it work better for you.
What is their original response to that? What’s their response at first? Is it do they think it’s possible?
I think there’s a little doubt and a lot of relief like, yeah, enough relief that they’re like, okay, I’m willing to give this a try, especially if in that they’re in that overwork and the overwhelm like and they like their work like they know that they’re passionate about what they do. It’s hard for them to just consider, I just want to shut the thing down. They really but they also know they can’t keep going the way that. Yeah. So sometimes it’s a health thing, it’s often a constraint that comes up to like they are burnt out, but sometimes that’s not enough to make them change. But they might have a kid or they might have a health problem, or they might have an older parent that they need to take care of, or they might really miss traveling. Like there’s generally some sort of trigger for my clients where they recognize my business is taking away from this thing and this thing is so important to me and I’ve got to get back on track.
What kind of you mentioned before going back to that example of like the taking the Wednesday off person. Like How long can we expect before a change like that can take place? Or even if it’s like, Oh, I’m working 50 hours a week, I want to work 30 hours a week. And we all know, like people want immediate results, like, oh, I want to start doing this next week. Like is there a general timeframe that you that you all work within to? And I know it’s different for everybody, but like, what do you what do you see, you know, in working with your clients?
So my answer is absolutely. It depends on the person, how fast they move, how complicated their business is, how you know, how much time and space they have to do things, how much support they have to do things. And also the last year or two, I’ve really been tracking how long this really takes because you’re right, like we are sold this bill, especially in the online space and as coaches and consultants stuff that we can achieve things really, really fast. And what I found is it moves much, much slower in real life. And so what I have noticed is it takes about a year for someone to get to like their time freedom goal. We’re going to get them somewhere along the way. We’re going to get them a time frame along the way. It might be 5 hours a week moving towards that larger goal. Like if they’re trying to get to the 25 hour work week from working 50 to 60 hours a week, we’re going to incrementally get them there, but I’m not going to ask them to do that overnight. It’s too big a shift for them and a shift for the business. So generally I find a year to really look at your services and make those changes, to look at your systems, to look at your support team, how you’re doing your marketing, and also throughout that entire year to question and shift your personal habits, that that’s really the real work.
It’s a lot of the work that comes into play. And so I this last year I’ve actually shipped to my services to really support that. I used to work with people over six months to better their business and simplify. And what I saw was that at the six month mark, a lot of people were like, We’ve gotten to a good place, but it’s not quite where I want to be. I want another six months. And then I noticed those people who sat for the year. That’s where the real transformation happened. So I shifted that with my services and then I also shifted how I’m delivering it instead of doing every other week coaching calls like a lot of coaches do, I am now doing quarterly intensives so that my clients have actual real time and space between our meetings to make the changes that we’ve missed. Instead of just saying, okay, we’re going to meet again and them saying, I haven’t really had time to do anything. And then that’s talking about why they don’t have time. I’m just going to give them the time and give them the full year and meet with them for deep dives quarterly instead of all the time.
So yeah, can you share a little bit more about how you set up your business? We have obviously a lot of coaches that listen to this show and I think it’s really helpful to hear just different, you know, the way people just different ways to do business because there’s all kinds of different ways to do it. Now, you say quarterly deep dives. Is this as a group, it’s this individual. How does what is what is the business look like?
Yeah. So I’ll start by telling you how to evolve. So I started kind of similar to your story, like whatever anyone told me, this is what a coaching practice looks like. I was like, okay, this is what it should be. I should serve 15 clients at a time. I should take calls all throughout the week, like this is what it should look like. Worked, okay, like and I was pretty tired. And so from there it was like going to, I was going to reduce my client capacity. And I started the first shift I made was asking, what if I started taking the last month, the last week of the month off from client calls? And so for me, that was a shift of switching my services. You know, how I was scheduling things out to get that last week of the month off. And that was really, really great for me as a coach to be able to take a break from calls, you know, to take a vacation, if I wanted to, to work on deep creative projects, if I wanted to. And then that was working well for me. And that model could have continued to work well for me. The thing I was noticing is that my clients needed more time, and so those every other week calls I was noticing for the people who were doing these really deep work in their business, we’re starting to say like, I don’t I’m still working on that and we could do the work together. But I was like, What if I just gave them more time? So I had this like six month coaching partnership where we met every other week, and then I was taking the last week of the month off and that was good.
And I was also doing intensives when I started to notice was that people would come back for a new intensive when they kind of wrapped up the work and that that was working really, really well to stretch things out and work at their own pace. And so I met with a business designer and said, I have this idea and we kind of workshopped it and figured it out that what I was going to move towards was letting go of the classic coaching container and moving towards a recurring intensive model that now looks like individual coaching intensives four times a year with one client and meeting with them for these deep dives. And then in between. I’m never someone who can just totally detach for my clients. I like to still stay in touch. Sure. And so in between I’m offering office hours, which the thing that I like about that is it is available to them and it is not mandatory. So if they are good on their own and they’re feeling supported and they have their action plan and they’re rocking it, great. If a question has come up or they need support on something new, they can come to office hours. But that way it really plays into the time freedom thing. I don’t want them showing up if they don’t need to. I’d rather they go sit in the sun or read a book.
Sure. Yeah. And that’s I mean, I don’t mean to sound. Is that it? But is it as simple as that?
It is. And what that does for me, too, as a coach, you know, anyone coach is listening. You can love your clients and you can feel so alive on those calls. And if you are also I’m an introvert like in somebody who can only. It’s so much pouring out. I need to keep a little bit of that for my family and myself and my community and stuff. And so for me, what this does, it takes me from like 30 calls a month
to like six calls a month. The calls themselves are longer, but I’m seeing fewer clients and I’m going deeper with them. And that very much aligns with what I want my business to look like. Yeah.
I love it. I’m introverted as well and so I’m the same way. Like yesterday I did. Did you know our call went? I probably went 2 hours yesterday. It’s a group call. But, you know, I let it go a little bit longer usually. And I was so energized on the call, but and yesterday was a busy day, but like later in the afternoon, I’m like, oh, I’m so spent. But you’re right. And, you know, I actually oddly feels weird to say this, but I haven’t thought about it from that perspective of, yeah, as an introvert, I need to, you know, need some downtime, if you will, to kind of re-energize. But yet towards the end of the day, like late afternoon, I’m going to go spend time with my, you know, my three year old daughter. And she’s three years old. I need the energy to chase her around and have fun and all that stuff like that and be present with her. And so baking more of that sort of blank space, if you will, is so important now, actually. So I’m just curious, you you mentioned partnership with them. Yeah. Is it an actual partnership?
Not in terms of like revenue share partnership. I know some coaches do and works great for them. Yeah. No, it’s just it’s how I see it. I have always I’ve never put myself up on a pedestal and been like, I’m the one leading you. I see myself as I’m collaborating with my clients. And so it feels very much like a partnership where we’re making decisions together and I’m mentoring them, but it’s never felt like kind of that classic, like I’m going to tell you what to do. Style of coaching. Yeah, much more exploratory. So but word partnership has always felt like the right fit for me.
Yeah, now I like that. I like that. And in order for you to have that kind of business, very successful business, what. What is it? What does the team look like for you?
Yeah. So we are talking at a super interesting transition point for me with team and I’ll be super transparent around this. So I am like revisiting my ideas of team. My team has recognized that the things that I most need are not the things that they are. They’ve kind of moved in a different direction with their skillset or I’m in a place now where I’ve let go of some things that I don’t feel like I need support with. And I’m also thinking, trying to decide who’s the right person now to bring on for these remaining things. My business has changed. I’ve let go of so much that there’s not as much I need support with in terms of marketing and things. And there are still some things that I’m going to need a little bit of support with. And so it’s going to be this next season about figuring out who that is. And I don’t yet know if that’s going to be somebody who’s on my team in a, you know, a monthly retainer type thing like I have in the past. That’s what I’ve done for like the last five or six years.
And it’s been great and exactly what my business needed. But what this new model, I don’t have the volume of clients like I don’t need all that. And so it may look like a retainer, you know. Va someone support person coming in it may also look that I’m starting to explore ideas, hire contractors for various parts of the year and I have a really great connection friend who does that and that’s worked great for her business. And so that’s another option to explore is team doesn’t always have to look like a right hand person or a recurring retainer support. It could also look like I bring in the right person for me for contract for a short period of time. And then I go out on my own again and then you rinse and repeat on that. So full transparency, that’s what it’s looked like in the past and it’s been great. With the business model shifting, I no longer have the needs for team that matches my past team. So exploring new options.
You tease the answer to my next question is where do you where do you find help for your team but also for your clients? And they’re looking to hire, you know, we all have our different ways. Like what are the different avenues that you recommend?
Yeah. So my two favorites and I think these are often overlooked and I think most people just go post somewhere, you know, just put up the job listing somewhere and you can get someone, but you can also get a abundance of applicants that are really that can be a lot to wade through. The way I found every single team member in the past has been to ask people who do something similar to what I do, who they love working with, like to ask other coaches who is a great OBM, who you love working with, or to ask someone who
runs a podcast? Who do you use for podcast production? Who’s your editor? It I hesitated to do that upfront because I thought it was going to be poaching those great people from their team. But what it turned out is they were only working in other people’s businesses, you know, ten, 15, 20 hours a month. And those providers would love to give them more work like they loved what they were doing. They would love to be more successful. So I found my beam that way. My designer podcast team, like all of that was through that method. The second way that I often have clients do it is to look at their own audience like we send it out to your newsletter, put it up on social. Media. There are often people who follow your business and who deeply respect you and would be a great fit for a hire. And you don’t know that they’re there. So I always say publicize it with the people who are already following you as well. Yeah.
I’m loving this, by the way. I’m like, this is so like, this is right up my alley. So we’re talking about team. I know that one of the things that you mentioned when working with your clients and this is something that we do as well is and I’d love to hear both from your perspective for your business and also maybe share an example or two from your clients is like focusing when we’re reducing hours, we obviously have to make sure the hours that we are working are highest leverage activities. So how do you like how do you decide for yourself and your business? What are those things that you’re going to be focusing on or somebody on your team is going to be focusing on? And then also for your clients, like how do you help them figure out, oh, okay, you’re going to be working this many hours. Okay, we’re going to take Wednesday off. We’ve got Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. This is how we need to be spending those hours because, you know, we are cutting some hours from the schedule.
So I would say two categories, right. One is, what are the revenue generating activities like? You’ve got to be looking at those. And for my clients, most of my clients aren’t trying to get out of their business. They want to keep doing the thing that they do. You know, the consulting, the speaking, whatever it is, the coaching, they just want to do a little less of it or the other stuff. And so I know for most of my clients that there are going to be blocks on their calendar, they’re going to be delivering the service themselves. And so that’s going to be on there. And then I also would say the things that you’re really excited about that are really deeply fulfilling. I’m not someone who’s going to say, pass that thing off just because it’s not a revenue generator. Like one of my clients recently said, I really want to make time to do my email newsletter this week and she also or this newsletter this year and she hasn’t been doing it. And she goes and I also want to keep maintaining these working hours. And my first question was, why do you want to do the newsletter? Because it doesn’t drive revenue for you. It’s not how your clients find you. It’s not at all necessary for your business. And she said, because it’s like deeply fulfilling to me, it’s how I get great ideas out into the world. It’s how I start interesting conversations in my industry. It’s really important to me. So while we could argue she doesn’t need to do the newsletter or she could delegate it to someone else, I wasn’t going to push back on that reasoning.
So she gets those activities, but she’s an architect. And so the thing that she’s going to give up is the drawings. Like she’s not going to be doing the final drawings set for people and that is going to save her tons and tons of time. Yeah. So it’s a revenue generating activity, but not one that she needs to do. Sure. So that’s often how I look at things. I want people to figure out what are kind of the things for me. Like I know that in my business I’m going to be the one coaching. I don’t have any coaches under me. It’s just me and I’m also the one who creates content. So whether that’s podcasting, my audio course, the writing I do every week, that’s going to meet me. And I have considered delegating that like maybe I delegate the writing, but I’m a writer and that just makes sense for me to do it. And I love it and it takes an hour a week, so that’s worth it to me. But what I can delegate is I don’t need to be the person scheduling the newsletter, I don’t need to be the person editing the podcast. Like, those are things in the past that I’ve delegated because that doesn’t require anything unique from me or my expertize. It can be done by someone else. So sometimes it’s also not passing something off. I kind of just figuring out where do we pass the baton and take on generally like the production side of it where I handle creation.
With that, by the way, I’m like, wait an hour a week for your email, for your writing.
That took a lot of the that that was my thing. It used to take 4 hours and to spread over two days because the perfectionist in me was like, this has to be brilliant. This has to, you know, I’m a writer, I’ve got to do this. And now I recognize this. The newsletter serves a point and a purpose in my business. Yeah, but not a four hour. If I work 25 hours a week and I’m spending four on the newsletter, we’ve got a problem. So yeah, I have a process that helps me get into it. And a lot of it is like, this is an area, even as a writer, I can do B-level work here and I still get, you know, engagement and responses and the idea still gets out into the world.
All right. I have to ask, since you since you said that, what is what is the process for you? Get into it pretty into the email.
So this may feel be very relevant for people who are writers and it may feel very weird for those who are not. But I know that I have to move. And so I get my best ideas when I’m running, walking, anything like that. So I know on Thursdays I write my newsletter and I generally do some sort of movement and I just keep my phone with me and I kind of, you know, I’ve got some ideas of what I might be writing about and I just start voice messaging myself or texting, you know, things into Boxer and then I’ll come down and sit down and write it. And my first step is I write the shitty first draft. I just get it all out on paper and then I start to read it aloud it and make sure it sounds like me and move things around. And then generally, you know, an hour, sometimes it’s a little bit more, sometimes it’s like 30 minutes and it’s done. But my newsletter is very storytelling based. It’s always focused on one topic, like I’m not there’s not lots and lots of different things going on in the newsletter. So it is very simple to write to.
Yeah. Is the how. What big a role? How big a role does your newsletter play and your getting clients? Where. Where are your most of your clients coming from? Because what I don’t hear is you’re doing all kinds of different marketing. Like, how are you? What are what are you focused? You got your podcast. You have your email. Where the majority of your clients coming from.
So podcast, email and collaborations. So a lot of times collaborations meaning like you and I talking on a podcast, I might find connect with some people there, me going into a membership community and giving a talk on how to create time, freedom in your business, or how to design your schedule in a way that’s very life giving. That is what introduces people to me is that that’s the first step. And then the podcast and the newsletter are actually more of a nurturing thing than something is not generally how people find me in the first place. It’s the thing that they go to next to confirm, Yes, I like this approach. It’s resonating with me. So for me, like that’s where I say the newsletter isn’t like the thing. It’s more important for me to do collaborations and prioritize those. The newsletter is important to keep people engaged and to get those ideas out there. And the podcast and the newsletter, interestingly enough, also serve a role for my clients. Like there’s a lot of my clients who listen to that and who are subscribed to the newsletter. And sometimes the things that I talk about, there aren’t things that I’ve talked about with those clients yet or aren’t something that they’ve considered, and it gives them an idea that that we then roll with into coaching. And so that’s really fun too. It serves a dual purpose for yeah, prospective clients and current clients.
I love it. What do you have any other examples of the with your clients? You mentioned the architects, you know, in the architecture field. Any other maybe like a coach for example, who is maybe doing all of the things schedule’s all over the place and then honing that down into, okay, I have they want to work X amount of hours a week. These are the types of things they’d be focusing on.
Yeah. I think if they’re coaching, they’re going to continue coaching and that is probably going to be the bulk of their hours. Right. So if they want to work the 25 hour week, maybe 15 hours a week are coaching. And so what that looks like is if they have ten other hours a week, like I would get rid of a lot of the admin stuff. My recommendation is like if you don’t need to do that, like let someone else figure out your client scheduling following up with client stuff, handling the invoicing, handling onboarding, handling onboarding and getting testimonials. Someone else can do all of those things. And then with marketing, I think you can. That’s the other kind of big bucket that a lot of people are spending their time on. I like to ask my clients, Well, how do we do less there for starters, before delegating things like Are there maybe you’re doing five marketing activities and maybe only three of them are actually doing anything for your business. So maybe you let the other two go completely, or maybe you keep them, but do a little bit less, less posting, less using those platforms and then maybe you delegate some of the stuff. So if you’re somebody like me who does a lot of collaborations, you can hire somebody to pitch podcasts for you like that, something that you could do if you wanted to take that off your plate, if you knew. When I go on podcast, it really benefits my business, but I find that I can’t do that and do the pitching and everything. But if someone else does the pitching for me, I can work the hours I want and get that benefit. You might look at a higher like that then.
Is that what you have?
I don’t because I could, though, if I know exactly who I would hire if I wanted to do that. But my background is in writing and so and I use to write for magazines. So pitching is actually a really, really comfortable skill for me that I’ve been doing for I don’t even know now 18 years or something like that. And so I don’t, but I but it has crossed my mind a few times that just because I can do it and have that skill set doesn’t mean I shouldn’t consider passing it off.
Sure. Now, we I mean, we got connected through J.K. Simmons. Mm hmm. How else do you like? What tends to work for you? I know this is a question that always comes up is like there people are number one, they’re afraid to reach out to other other podcasters. For example, what tends to work for you if it’s not a, you know, a mutual introduction to get on other shows?
Yeah. Shows or even like the membership community, the workshops and stuff. Yeah, I do like the mutual introduction. I think that works. I, I didn’t know about your podcast until Jack had mentioned it like I was. She was on my podcast and that’s a great way for me to connect with people. And, and I just asked her afterwards, like, are there any podcasts you’re listening to and loving lately that, that you think I would be a great guest for and stuff? I didn’t ask for the introduction or anything and she immediately mentioned your podcast in one other and was like, I’d be happy to make the introductions. So that that is, I think just asking people like people who know you well, people who know what you’re about, like ask them even the simple question of what would be a good fit for me, just so you don’t have to even do the research of which podcast should I go on? Is a really great option. Yeah. The other thing that has worked for me again and again and again is going to sound so like stupidly simple is listen to the person’s podcast.
I cannot I cannot tell you how many pitches I get from people who clearly have never listened to my show. Like the topic is so off base from what I talk about that I know and it’s an immediate no. And they’ve wasted all that time crafting the pitch and it’s not even close. And so I always tell my clients who want to do podcast pitching, listen to three episodes, I recommend listening to like an intro, a solo cast, something that’s like really helps you get to know what their podcast is about, what their values are, that sort of thing. And then listen to a couple of interviews like and not necessarily interviews on similar topics to what you would talk about that can be helpful for you to see. What didn’t they talk about that you could come on and really add value, but just listen to a few. You get a feel for the person as an interviewer and what type of topics they like to cover. And then you can reference those in your pitch and that goes a long, long way.
And go beyond just the most recent episode. Yes.
Thank you. It’s like it’s like your pitch. Somebody pitch is like, I love the enter, you know, fill in the blank of the latest episode or what you said about this. And it’s the latest episode.
And it’s taken from the show notes and it’s clear that they haven’t listened like, yes, I agree. Like all of those pitches that I say are bad fits are the ones that say this. The most recent episode I listened to the most recent episode, and I liked it. And so now let me pitch you this person. It’s generally an agency or something, and it’s not generally the person themselves. I have also received a lot of phenomenal pitches for my podcast, so many that I haven’t had space for all of the guests that are clearly people who listen to the show, who understand the concept, who really add value to it, and just want to have an interesting conversation, which is what my show is about. And so those are great. And again, they listen to the show and they understand the premise of it. And even if all they’d done was listen to the intro or like listen to the, you know, the first episode, they would know that already. That’s all they had to do.
What I mean, aside from those things, like was there anything within the pitch itself that stood out for you?
So my podcast is a little different in that I don’t have people come on and talk about their expertize. Yeah, it might leave into the conversation a little bit, but I’m having them come on and tell me about how have they created time, freedom in their business? That’s very, very different. So people that are coming out and saying, I did this experiment with my services or I did this experiment with my marketing, and it really worked and it’s been so much more useful for me. They get it like. And so that is a real yes for me versus the people who are like, I’d like to come on and teach you ten ways to do X, Y and Z, not really the style of podcast that I have. So you have to listen for that. And it’s nuanced. And so those people like really rise to the top.
And also get the person’s name right. Mike I’ve got you. Dave I’m like, really? Just get the name right. Come on. You can do better than that.
Yeah. And the other thing I will say is when you’re pitching a podcast like there, there will always be so many people who’ve already talked about what you talk about. Yeah. Find that, that angle, that that’s not talked about yet and it might be really, really small. But lead with that, you can still talk about the more general topics, but if you can find that little angle that’s a little bit different, that can be really, really helpful for the host to get excited about the conversation. The host wants to be excited about the conversation too seriously.
And Fairway Listening podcast hosts want guests like the ones that have guests on. Like do some shows that are just strictly solo. Like, we want guests, we want we’re looking for guests. And so that’s the other thing too is like a lot of people feel like, oh, they don’t need guests. Like they’re good, like. We’re looking for guests.
Yeah, good guests and diverse guests and interesting stories. Like for me personally, I don’t want to have the same people on my show that have been on 200 other shows telling the exact same story every time. I want those people that maybe have only been on three shows, but their stories are so good and their takeaways are so strong, and I know my audience is going to love it. Like Duquette was one of those, like an obvious. She didn’t pitch me. I reached out to her because I had known about her business, but I was like, You are absolutely the kind of business owner I want to have fun.
Yeah, I love it. I want to kind of finish up with this question of like we kind of started with it. And so I think it’s a good time to circle back to it is the financial piece to this because this is you know, this came up yesterday in that conversation I was referencing earlier with that accelerator member who was chasing that million dollar mark. And there’s nothing wrong with it, right? If if there’s intention behind it, don’t do it just because somebody says, oh, that’s what success is. You’ve made it at that point because that’s just a bunch of crap. Like, it’s like, don’t be chasing somebody else’s business. You mentioned earlier on is like number one is figuring out what is enough. So like how. What is your thought process around like for not only for yourself, but also for your clients and like, all right, if you want this kind of time, freedom in your business and you’re looking to whatever generate what kind of revenue, how are you helping them and how do you figure out what that revenue can be or should be, quote unquote?
Yeah. So I’m a big numbers person, which is kind of funny because I’m a journalist doing training and stuff, but I’m really big on let’s figure out what you need for your life. You know, if you’re a dual income household, what does that look like? If you’re a solo household? Like, if you are the only person you know, you’re if you’re the breadwinner, like, what does that look like? What do you really need to bring in to provide your family with the quality of life? Some of my clients have like financial coaches and stuff that they work with around these issues, but generally they haven’t thought about it. Like even coaches. Yeah, even my clients who work in the financial industry. I had a client who was an accountant and I said, Well, what do you need to make in your business? And she was like, I don’t know. Like, and, and it wasn’t like, I don’t know, like what I to pay the expenses. But she hadn’t figured out what what level would really satisfy her. And so she could have just kept going and going going and saying, yes, everything is saying I need that revenue. We instead looked at like, what do you want? And she’s kind of in the mid six figures is where she wants to be for her business.
It shouldn’t be the million dollar business to get the life that she wants at all. So that meant that at that point, once we design the business for that, then we really were focused more on the time freedom and that was more important to her than on building out new revenue streams or increasing capacity or anything. So I think you’re right in the first step is if you think you need the million dollar business or if you think you need even just the six figure business, like just making sure that that goal is your goal, not somebody else’s, and getting really clear even like I know the exact figure, like it’s not for me, it’s not the million dollar business at all and it’s also not the $50,000 business. I know what I want and what that needs to look like, and I know the hours and the capacity of clients I need to serve to reach that point. And so that’s the first thing is really figuring out that detail. And then you make all the business decisions with that goal, that goal. And for me, the time freedom goal, the hours worked goal in mind.
Yeah, I love it. It was doing things with intention, right. Yeah. And I don’t mean to laugh like people. There’s so many people who can’t answer that question of like, what do you actually want? And I was one of those for years and years. Like, it wasn’t actually until the last few years that I was able to figure that out meeting like, Oh, you know what, chasing this million dollar. I mean, it’s amazing, right? I’m not trying to make light of it or lessen that or anything like that. I’ve had plenty of students tell me they’re like, I just want $1,000,000 is my goal, because I want to say I hit it. Yeah, like.
And that’s great, right?
Okay. Amazing. You haven’t you have a reason for it, but you’re not chasing somebody else’s version of success because that’s what you keep hearing.
Well, and it’s how you get there. And I get the sense that this is very true to the work that you do, too. Like I’ve had clients that I’ve worked with for years and their goal is the million dollar business, but it is not the million dollar business in two years time. They know that that is the goal and they are not willing to sacrifice time with their family or their health to get there. And so it’s sometimes it’s about changing the timeline. And this was very true for me at the beginning of my coaching practice. I went and got my coaching certification and I had peers around me who very quickly hit six figures and it took me like three or four years, to be honest. And the reason was because I wanted to work 15 hours a week in my business because I had a three year old and a one year old at home, and I could have put them in daycare. And that would have been a totally fine choice. And I could have, you know, stopped my runs and stop taking care of myself, but I didn’t want to. And so I recognized that, yes, my business will hit the six figure mark and it will grow beyond that. And like but I don’t have to rush to get there because right now it’s doing exactly what it needs to in terms of bringing me in the revenue I want for this season of my life and providing me with the lifestyle I want for the season in my life. And then I just check in year to year. You know, sometimes it’s a growth year. And like last year my goal was to make exactly what I made in 2020, but with more ease, more time, freedom, less stress. And to achieve that grew a little bit. But that wasn’t the point. Like the point was that I hit that close to ballpark number and and enjoyed a lot more ease.
And then what is it for this year?
This year is probably working less and probably also being comfortable making less, if I’m super honest. And the reason is that this season in my life I am my husband and I are renovating our house, which requires us to move out of the house for six months and and have a lot more lifestyle stuff going on. And so that was part of the impetus in switching from, you know, the 30 calls a month to six calls a month. There are a lot of other factors in that. But I also know that I was making substantially more than my enough number last year. And so I know I can scale back a little bit this year and enjoy a lot more freedom and not have too much stuff going with the business this year and then. You can go back to it if I want to.
That’s awesome. I love it. Yeah. People are going to want to know where they can connect with you. What is the best place to catch your better than big podcast?
Yes, my website is a great place. It’s actually grantland.com. The other thing I will say is you and I talked about the mindset piece, the personal habits and how big a role they play in this. I do have a short audio course that focuses in on 15. Like short like ten minute lessons that I have found that have been real game changers for my clients. And they adjust this habit or this personal mindset and suddenly they’re able to create a lot more time freedom. So that’s actually grantland.com backslash, do less, live more. If people want to check it out and see if that would be helpful for them.
Awesome. Does that get people into your podcast?
Did they do less? Live more? Yeah.
Like get them like get them does that get them listening to. Because this this is something that we’re starting to play around with, too, is like, all right, if they’re listening, if they’re not a listener of the podcast, we eventually want them to get we want to have them listen to the podcast. So offer something in audio because they’re listening. They’re getting used to listening to natural progression on the podcast.
Yeah, it’s funny for me that’s it’s flipped. It’s more like they’re listening to the podcast and when they want to keep the work deeper, they’ll go take this audio course, which is much more aligned than saying like, the thing I love about it is you just plug in your headphones. There’s no worksheet, no videos. I ask a lot of questions in there, things to think on, but it’s not a heavy lift. So people can listen to that ten minute lesson a day and they can make real shifts in their business without requiring more time. So that was like the impetus for me. But I think to answer your question of like how what’s an easy way to get people listening to the podcast? It is the going on other people’s podcast because you’re already in their ears and then it switches.
To yours. But it is. I could see it working that way. I don’t know anyone who’s done it that way, but I could see it working. You know, shorter audio course leads them into free podcast content for.
Sure, and other way around like you’re talking about. Great way to build your list from your podcast.
Yeah, it’s great. And it’s just I always think about my learning style and and also like my audience, my audience is busy, but I know that my audience listens to podcast. So, and I was thinking, how can I get these 15 lessons to them that I know are going to make a really big difference in their ability to create time freedom? Like, how can I do that in a way that would actually feel accessible to them and like they could actually do? And the audio course like made so much sense for that. And I’ve had people say they’ve binged it in a week and other people say they listen to, you know, one lesson a week and they really paced it out and or that they just listened to three lessons, the ones that were applicable to them and that they got the benefit they wanted. So the accessibility of their is important to me because it’s got to work for your life.
I love it because I link everything up. All the links that Ashley is talking about in the show notes for today’s episode. Ashley, thank you so much for coming on here. Really appreciate it. I love this conversation as I was telling you earlier on. And thank you again.
Appreciate it. Thank you so much. This has been great fun.
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