If Apple’s rollout of its iOS 14.5 privacy updates taught us anything in 2021, it’s the need to be diversifying our traffic. These updates really affected things like Facebook ads and data reporting, and made the reporting unreliable.
In an effort to diversify, I started my own YouTube channel. It’s actually something I’ve been wanting to do for a long time. A lot of our Accelerator coaching members are doing the same thing. They’re beginning to either grow a YouTube channel, or expand and scale the one that they already have.
Unfortunately, getting traction with a new YouTube channel can take a while.
My guest today is Tom Breeze. Tom is the founder of Viewability, and The Ad Buyers Club.
Tom is no stranger to the podcast; he’s been on many times before. His agency is among the best in the entire world when it comes to YouTube ads. They’ve finally cracked the code on how to use YouTube ads to grow your channel, do it very inexpensively, and do it without negatively impacting your YouTube channel.
It actually has a very positive impact on your YouTube channel the way that they’re doing it.
I asked Tom to come on and share his strategy, and share exactly what they’re doing to grow YouTube channels inexpensively with paid ads, and how you can do the exact same thing.
This is a really, really fun conversation, and I’m sure you’ll get a lot out of it.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- Using ads to grow your channel organically
- How to reach the right people with your ads
- Optimizing your ads for YouTube’s algorithm
- Building your YouTube channel correctly from the outset
- How to build an audience without using the algorithm
- Making ads that YouTube loves
- The right way to make a YouTube video
Links & Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
- DM me on Instagram
- Visit my YouTube channel
- The Art of Online Business website
- The Art of Online Business Podcast website
- Check out my Accelerator coaching program
Tom Breeze’s Links:
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I love inking three videos together. If you say this is a three parter, put them into a playlist as well, but link them to each other, YouTube really scores that highly, or they say someone’s watched this video and went to go and watch another one of your videos. That’s an earned view.
That earned view is a big indicator to YouTube that your content is good, and therefore is likely to get far more organic reach to it.
If Apple’s rollout of its iOS 14.5 privacy updates taught us anything in 2021, it’s the need to be diversifying our traffic. Because what that did, and I’ve been talking about it a lot here in the podcast this year in 2021, is the reporting is not very reliable anymore. It really affected Facebook ads a whole lot more than people expected, including Facebook.
It shined a big bright light on the need to be diversifying; something that we should be doing anyway in our business. It became more important than ever to be diversifying where we’re getting our traffic both organically and from a paid perspective.
One strategy that I’ve been wanting to do for a long time, then finally doing it here at the end of 2021, is to create my YouTube channel. A lot of our Accelerator coaching members are doing the same thing. They’re beginning to either grow a YouTube channel, or expand and scale the one that they already have.
We have a lot of members with huge YouTube channels. Unfortunately, when you’re getting started with a YouTube channel, it can take a long time to gain traction with it.
Well, my guest today, Tom Breeze, who is the founder of Viewability and The Ad Buyers Club. I think this is like his sixth time here on the podcast, or fifth time here on the podcast.
He is the guy when it comes to YouTube ads. He and his agency are among the best in the entire world when it comes to YouTube ads, and Tom and his agency have finally cracked the code on how to use YouTube ads to grow your YouTube channel, and do that very inexpensively. We’re talking a few dollars a day. That can have huge impacts on your channel.
The real “secret sauce” of what they’ve figured out is how to do this without negatively impacting your YouTube channel. It actually has a very positive impact on your YouTube channel the way that they’re doing it.
So, I asked Tom to come on and share this strategy, share exactly what they’re doing to grow YouTube channels inexpensively with paid ads, and how you can do the exact same thing. This is a really, really fun conversation. A really important conversation for where we are in the whole online marketing space.
A really, really good conversation with Tom. I’m really excited to bring you this interview.
Now, before we dive into it with Tom, we are accepting applications for our Accelerator coaching program. If you are an established online course creator or online coach, and you’re looking to take your business to the next level, you’re already making at least $100K a year from your online business, looking to take things to the next level.
You’re looking to increase your profit, increase your impact with less hustle, that is exactly what we help you do inside of our Accelerator coaching program. This is one-on-one coaching, group coaching, and a mastermind experience all wrapped up into one program. I just love this program so much.
So, if I’m talking to your language right now. If you’re listening right now, nodding your head like, “I need this!” To learn more and apply, it’s application only, go to RickMulready.com/Accelerator.
Alright, my friends without further ado, let’s go hang out with Tom Breeze.
Tom. I feel like I should send you The Art of Online Business silver plaque that you get with a hundred thousand subscribers on YouTube. I think you now hold the record for the most guest appearances on the podcast. I want to put the microphone in front of you now. How does this make you feel?
The cream rises to the top and,
I mean, seriously,
Well, it’s very kind of you to have me back constantly. It’s probably me pestering you more than you requesting that I should be on the podcast and be like, Hey, I need to come back on Rick.
I remember you telling me, but like, I mean, it’s been a while since you’ve been on it, I mean, at least a year. and I remember you telling me afterwards, like, And your listeners are just the best people. They reach out to you and, tell you that they heard you on the show and they start working with you and your agency and so forth.
And I just, I mean, that means the world to me. I love hearing that. I know that about our listeners. I will say, I don’t think we’ve talked about this, but since we last. Since you were last on the show, we have thousands of new listeners. so let’s have you introduce yourself, reintroduce yourself to my listeners here for those people who do not know who Tom Breeze is.
I’ll let you say in your own words.
Well, first of all, can I just say that you do have a ridiculously amazing podcast? Like every time I come on here and every time I listened to your podcast, you’re able to interview people in such a way where you can. Great content from them, but in an entertaining and really engaging way as well. So as hard as really hard and a kudos to you, that’s really, really cool.
That might be like one of like the top, like a compliment I could receive seriously.
Well I truly mean it.
I, and I told you, like, I always say this when authors show here, like, I literally have one sentence on my notion document here. And it’s like, you’re in the UK. It’s like, what? Six 30? Your time?
Yeah. At 6:30 PM. Yeah.
Time in the morning.
So it’s like dinner time for you or tea time or
You’re probably going to hear screaming kids in a second. Yeah.
So it’s like you and I sit down for tea. And we’re just chatting about growing a YouTube channel with paid ads and driving more customers with YouTube. Yeah. I don’t have my mug in front of me cause I’ve already had two coffees this morning, but anyway, I interrupted you.
No, of course. Well, no, I was, I was complimenting you, so yeah. So, my name is Tom Breeze and I run a YouTube ad agency. we’re very focused on direct response, so we get results and that’s the main thing of getting new customers and clients that profit and scale. we also have our consultancy arm of our business called ad buyer’s club.
And that’s what we kind of partner with people and help them grow and scale their own businesses as well as their YouTube channels. And then, we have this little project going on the side at the moment, which is much more about building and growing YouTube channels with paid ads. So instead of kind of looking at it from an organic perspective, start looking at it as like, how can I just promote and amplify the content I already have?
While still supporting the growth of your organic channel. I think there’s a lot of people that feel like if they run ads on their content, well, it just negatively impacts my channel and I’ve thought that for years, and that’s why I haven’t really mastered it just yet. But now we feel like in the last year, or a place where it’s working really well now, so yeah, it’s been a long journey.
We’ve been trying to master this for like four or five years or probably even longer, to be honest. And, we finally fell out we’re in a place where we can pay. YouTube with money to help us grow channels, in the right way, which is really exciting. And I’m happy to talk about that for as long as you’d like.
I want to break that down with you today because especially, I mean, we’re recording this the middle of November, 2021. It’s been a year of. IOS privacy rollout, greatly affecting far more than everybody expected. I think, including Facebook and affected their advertising and the ability to see results and, and tracking and so forth.
So people are. Finally when really all along, but now it’s like, oh, I need to diversify my traffic both organically and from a paid ads perspective. And so, you know, I know, especially among our Accelerator members, that YouTube ads has been something that a lot of them have been looking at. And I did a recent episode here on the show talking about, you know, you know, I I’ve, for so many years, I’ve been quote known as the Facebook ads.
But I did an episode recently here on the show saying like Facebook ads may not be the best option for you. And looking at obviously depends on what kind of business that you have. YouTube. Can be a really effective platform from an ads perspective and an organic perspective for so many different types of businesses.
And I’m going to ask you a lot of selfish questions because as you and I have been talking about for several months now, I’m beginning to grow my YouTube channel, my personal YouTube channel. And you know, this is something that we talked about few months ago, as far as like what you just mentioned, how to grow the channel with paid ads.
Inexpensively, but yet really effectively. And while doing that to increase sales, get more customers. and so I want to start off with, what is the difference here? Between how he would normally quote unquote, traditionally think about running YouTube ads to like, you know, drive people to an automated webinar, for example, or not, or, you know, just to, directly to a sale versus what we’re talking about here.
Leveraging YouTube ads to grow your organic.
Yeah. Great question. so the difference is like if you’re going for a direct response, Avenue, which is kind of saying, I want to spend money today and get leads and sales today or tomorrow or within a. Timeframe, which we would be measuring that kind of return on ad spend. And you say, right, for every dollar I’m spending, how much am I getting back within a certain timeframe?
That’s kind of our bread and butter. And we’ve been doing that for years and we’ve always been working with clients to grow and scale a business very quickly. And so it’s, I wouldn’t say we’re a million miles away from brand awareness because you end up realizing you have to be starting to think about your brand when you scale anyway.
But there is that kind of like heavy focus on saying we’re going to put $1 in the machine and how much can we get out as quickly as possible. And that’s kind of one side of YouTube advertising, you know, like that’s the kind of more traditional way. I think most small to medium-sized businesses will be looking at these platforms.
On the other hand, and this other side is kind of a very different style of thinking. There is a way in which it compliments our response activity, but I think the way that you go into this is to think I want my channel to be seen by far more people. I want to get a lot more reach. I want people to see my great content for what it is.
And make sure that when they see my content, they really engaged with it. They love it. So that inevitably, if people see that content, there’s a very good chance that people are going to want to do business with you. But I wouldn’t look at it from that standpoint of saying, I want to get into this type of activity in order to get customers.
It just so happens. That happens too. So it’s, it’s different style. and a lot of people look at that and say, well, isn’t that just building a YouTube channel? And doing the weekly videos or the daily videos and trying to put great content out there. And that that’s one side of growing your YouTube channel.
There’s so many experts in that field and there’s so many people talking about like what content works best for the algorithm and how long should your videos be and how do you get the kind of tagging and the titles and the descriptions and the right way and, and all the great work that people do on the organic side that does obviously need to be paid attention to.
The problem is that a lot of people would end up building these channels, either craziness, content that never gets seen. And it’s exhausting because it’s like such a long time before you see any sort of traction. But the other thing you end up realizing you stop creating content for the algorithm and not for the person who actually wanted to talk to.
So if you end up kind of thinking, right, well, I’m going to just create this channel and I’ve got to create the content, the algorithm once or the YouTube algorithm once it’s a very difficult. well, it, it just starts diluting your content slightly because you’re not speaking directly to your customer and actually telling them what you want to tell them and say, this is actually the real value and the real advice you probably should be listening to.
And if you did that to start with, and you didn’t have another way of getting amplification to that, it’s those videos you end up being able to them. It’s never going to pick it up. So it’s never going to be seen. So it’s, I understand the battle that people are going through and this approach to. we’d been asked during to say, well, can you put paid ad spend behind amplifying those videos that you really want your customers to see?
And doing it in a way where you’re not just getting it in front of lots and lots of people and trying to turn it into business. You’re saying I’m getting in front of people and I’m getting the same markers that the algorithm is looking for. So you’re getting really high retention rates. So the advertising is not about getting someone to click and buy the advertising is getting someone to watch your content to stick around and continue to watch your.
What’s the algorithm really loves.
Yeah. So it’s almost like an indirect way of feeding the algorithm, what it wants, but you get to choose what content you want to create, which is, is freeing for an entrepreneur, because if you’re, well, if you ever see these big channels, that once you get to a really big size, you can kind of create whatever content you want, because you’ve got so many viewers that watch your content because you’re kind of an influencer.
Whereas when you’re, when you’re talking about business and really that the indirect messages come and buy my products and say, I am going to do business with me, but you thinking, right. I want to build a connection with people first and build that brand. That’s where you start to think. Well, if I’m a real business owners, surely I have to consider what YouTube want me to create in order to start getting that true.
And this just gives you another option to say, well, no, you don’t have to play that game. Let’s reverse engineer this a little bit and say, create those con, create the content you really want to create that you know, is I have my, my customer saw this content and watched it for 10 minutes. They’re going to probably want to do business with me.
That sort of content you can really stand by. It doesn’t have to even consider the algorithms, but then you want to pay to get that video in front of people. And that’s where you get this option. Yes, you’re paying for that exposure, but it. Done the right way. It’s very cheap to do this. And, yeah, you can get some amazing results by taking this strategy.
It just so happens. The by-product of doing that activity, the leaves you, with so many clues about how you would do direct response activity as well. There’s so much data you can gather from this. I’m happy to unpack all of this, but I just want to try and keep it at the simple level to begin with before we go deep into analysis and stats.
And that’s a good thing.
So are we using the same, the actual video? Like, let’s just say it’s a whatever six minute video. That we’ve have on our channel. Is that the ad or is it, are we recording a whole other video to use as the ad to drive to that video or back to the channel?
Yeah, well, you can kind of create whatever you want. So I would normally say, try and do a 10 to 15 minute content piece. With a view to maybe even link that through to more content. So, okay. I’ll give you an example. So, one of the videos we’ve done a lot of testing around that to try and make this work is we do a YouTube ads master class.
Now YouTube advertising masterclass is like not searched for on YouTube. Like it would be. Weight loss or something in those lines. It’s not like
Niche where people are like, oh, I wake up in the morning. I must learn how to do YouTube ads. it’s it doesn’t happen that often.
Yeah, you work, you might do. Yeah. You and five other people in the world. but I know the content is really, really good. Right. And I put this video together, but what I’ve done is I is 45 minutes worth of content that I’ve broken down into three parts. So 15 minutes each roughly. And they link through to each other.
So as soon as I start the first video, I give as much value in advice and really good content and the retention naturally from organic, those people that do see it stick around and watch the end, click through to the next video, watch all that through to it’s like they’re watching a free webinar, but a content webinar, you know, something that’s really valuable.
Doing any pitching, any selling.
What YouTube likes
Cause you’re, you’re keeping them within a YouTube go into another YouTube.
Yeah, my mantra behind this is like, okay. So let’s say for example, you did have a webinar and you’re asking people and you wanted to promote it with a YouTube ad. The numbers just don’t stack up in the way that if you were to do it, this approach. So let’s say, for example, you said let’s run a in-stream ad.
I, when there’s like pre-roll ads on YouTube. You’ll be really, if you run it really well, you might get a 2% click through rates from your ad. So from a, a thousand people seeing your ad, you might have 20 people that click through to your site. that’s a lot of people that said no to your video, right.
And didn’t click that’s 98% of people said no to begin with. then on your opt-in page or your registration page, if you do it really well, you might get a 40% optimum. At this point now you’ve gone down from, I’ve got to do quick math in my head. You’ve got to have an, 40% of 20, which would be eight people sign up to your webinar and maybe you get four people to show up to the webinar.
That’s four people out of a thousand actually get to the start of the content that he wants to show them.
My mentor is like, well, look, just give them the content upfront and put it on YouTube. And you add those a thousand people. You’re probably gonna find that maybe 500 of them stick around to watch most of the video.
I’m good with that. That’s kind of, I’d much prefer to have like 500 people. See my good content than four people. See my good content and I sell with content that’s my personality. find it much easier to just give advice. And then through natural osmosis people, like I should probably contact this person to go there and they can help me.
And that’s my sales approach typically.
And that’s kind of the way to look at this as well as to say, you’re just putting great content out in front of people. We do the three parter. And, it’s just a great experience with someone on YouTube to watch those three videos. They learn a lot in those three videos, we get lots of positive comments, hospitable reach out to us by email saying, Hey, I just watched your YouTube ads masterclass on YouTube.
It’s not easy tracking them the easy to track that and say, oh, from this exposure, here’s how many people emailed you. It doesn’t really work quite like that. We just know that like, this is the content you wish you did create and put in front of exactly your market. And then you were saying, right, I’m going to force it to get in front of my customers now with paid amplification, rather than hoping that YouTube pick it up and say,
So the ad is video number one of your webinar. Is that right?
Yeah, exactly. So it’s any content that you’ve got in your channel. Like don’t think of it. This is just one ad. You could do this with every single video you create. because you’ll find it’s not easy to scale this, I’m talking about the. You’re not looking to necessarily scale one video to get it to like 10 million views or something you’re looking to say, right?
All of my videos just pick up an extra hundred views a day, that are really high quality videos. So the user keeps on seeing you everywhere, but with really good content, it’s difficult to ignore a brand like that. That keeps on appearing in front of you. But every time you see them as a new video and it’s even more great content, it’s a moment you think this is a cool brand that it’s not cost you that much to do.
I guess where my brain is going is like, if you run it as a pre-roll. And in front of, you know, well-targeted so you’re, you’re doing your targeting really well. You’re running a pre-roll. So before a video that someone’s going to watch, but it’s a 15 minute video, is someone actually going to watch that?
No. So I wouldn’t run it as a pre-roll ad or an instrument, what you want to do instead of.
W when you amplify this video content, your amplifying it like a discovery ad and a discovery ad is when you’re on YouTube and you’re watching someone else’s content you’re appearing on the right-hand side. or if you’re on a mobile device, you scroll and beneath your video would appear, but you can be based on the content already watching or the type of person they are and their interests, or what they’ve recently been searching for.
You can be. For those people at that time. and so bet you do this all the time. You go to YouTube, you start watching a video. It’s not great content and see like, well, let’s see if there’s anything else that could be more relevant for me. Maybe scroll down if you’re on your mobile device.
And all of a sudden you see a, like another video and you’re like, oh, that might be more of what I’m looking for. And that’s what your thumbnail will be. So the thumbnail is really important in order to be a qualification for your customers. So they see that and think that’s the sort of content I want to watch.
They click that and then immediately they’re watching your ad. So you kind of paid for a view at that point,
It’s a very, you can that customer.
So don’t take this the wrong way, but it sounds so simple.
Why has it been so hard to crack this code?
Yeah. Yeah, no, whenever you start a sentence, a sentence with, don’t take this the wrong way
Your defenses to really go like, oh God, what’s he going to say?
Just curious. Cause it’s, it sounds very straightforward, but it’s like, why does, why don’t more people do that?
Yeah. Great question. So. is the part of me that I must admit is almost like widen. I think of this sooner to a certain extent, it’s difficult. It looks, it sounds easy and it is easy in its simplicity, but it’s hard to execute sometimes, to track on how it’s performing.
And I think that’s the problem is that people look at this strategy as if, to say, well, where am I leading myself? And you’ve got to kind of abandon that thought. And that’s a difficult thing for most small businesses to abandon, and S and big businesses. Totally. Don’t really care about this. You know, they’re just like, oh, YouTube is not even on our radar.
We’re just spending TV budget, so to speak. so I think it fits into. World where it’s not that inspiring. You’re not going to have to spend more than, let’s say $20 a day on a particular video we have done. And it’s actually worked really well. But on the grand scheme, like when you look at most of your content, you’re not going to want to spend more than that to begin with, but you could spend thousands every day on in-stream ads, for example, that can really scale your company very quickly.
How do I describe this? It’s not going to scale crazy, but it’s going to really build your channel really quickly. That’s the beauty of this. So if you’re creating content, you’re not getting anywhere with it, it will scale it, quite very, very quickly, indeed.
So you can like 10 X, what you’re doing with just plain organic, probably like $5 a day, you know? So it’s, it’s very cheap to get.
On for like $5 a day, which is not something that you can really do on, on Facebook anymore. the days of $5 a day are pretty much gone. But what I’m hearing here is like, yeah, $5 a day, you can be leveraging the YouTube ads platform to grow your YouTube channel, which is by the way. And this is a big reason you and I talked about this a big reason why.
I mean, I’ve been wanting to create a YouTube channel for a while now, but it’s just like, okay. One thing at a time. And, which I’m very proud of myself by the way. Cause I have shiny object. It’s like everybody else, it’s like, Ooh, let’s do this, let’s do this. then my team’s like, whoa, whoa, one thing at a time.
But I, you know, you’re, you’re creating another asset for the business because YouTube being the second largest search platform, these videos live on obviously. And so. You know, you’re putting in the work upfront to create this growing the channel. And I want to talk about like the benefits of this, you know, coming up here, but you know what, you’re creating an asset.
So this is the you’re playing the long-term game. Whereas most people want to play the short term game and. It’s really hard, especially. I mean, it’s not impossible certainly on Facebook, but especially these days, it’s harder to get that instantaneous, you know, like within a day or so. Boom results. Okay, awesome.
It’s more got to be willing to play the long game. So I’m hearing here with this strategy. It’s the same sort of concept is we’re playing the long game here. We’re building an asset in our YouTube channel, but we’re leveraging. Really cost-effective ads to be able to help us amplify that and do that.
Precisely. Exactly. So instead of saying, where’s it going to take me two years to, like, I think one of our clients has just passed a hundred thousand subscribers and it took them a long, long time to get there. I think it’s like being five years to get there. And I would say that they, with this methodology whilst they have to spend money doing it, they could probably do it.
I don’t want to say in a year, but it would be far, far quicker. Let’s say, you can just pay your way to far more views and more engagement, more subscribers and things. But coming back to your, questioning around why did I not think of this sooner or, which is a
Dude. I wasn’t knocking on you. I was just like,
Sorry. I didn’t live up to your expectations.
Can you do better please? Come on now you’re
This. No, it does sound that the strategy sounds simple. Right. But
Lot more to it.
Big thing for us is that, like, I think we w we were going into this trying to think, like, how do we grow channels? And I think our first foray into this was to sell. How do we get subscribers? And we spend a lot of time on that to say, maybe if we just run this ad and ask them to subscribe, that would work.
And it does work. We’re getting like subscribers for like 20 cents. and that worked really well. And we could scale that in certain niches so certain areas where it was. if it was weight loss or if it was fitness or something huge audiences for that, we can be very clever about how we target the audiences and we can get subscribers very cheap, but how good is a subscriber that’s just watched your in-stream ad and decided to subscribe?
I don’t know. I don’t think it’s that great. It’s a good vanity metric. And you say, Hey, we’ve got this many subscribers, but I don’t want to subscribe to that. I want to make sure that we find that we’re actually building a genuine audience of like raving fans. And so the way that we had to abandon the idea of getting a response, so to speak and saying like, how are we going to measure this?
We’re going to measure it based on retention. That’s what we’re gonna do. so when we’ve released a video, we’ll look at the retention rates on YouTube and say, well, how long are people watching for say for example, you had a 10 minute video at the five minute mark, how many people are still sticking around and there’s might be around about 30, 40% of.
Once I write, when I run the ads to this, we got to make sure we match that. So that was a, that was a bit of a breakthrough for us to be like, I would just matching retention. Like they give you annoyingly inside of the ad platform that gives you 25, 50, 70 5% markers and a hundred percent market to say that’s a retention.
And then inside of YouTube, it gives you, a 30. 3%, 66% and then the end of the video and like, oh, that makes it even more complicated, like so frustrated and then just don’t look on the same thing. but that’s why we’ve built a bit of software to help us this internally. it’s, it’s getting two platforms to work together that, and it’s already great at working together for direct response activity, but not great for brand awareness that you want to do effectively.
And so that’s, that adds a level of complication because you have to start measuring the performance of the video and then match that in your ad campaigns. And then how would you run your ad campaigns without any goal in mind, apart from potential that they’re not normally set up for? That becomes a little complicated as well.
It was more like simplicity on the face value and levels of complexity on the backend, that made it a bit more challenging. yeah, if you, if you focus in on retention when you’re running your ads, and then you focusing on the togs and it gives you great retention for that particular video, all of a sudden you can be like, oh wow, we can spend now.
$4 a day on this video. and it gets us an audience that’s like perfect for us sticking around watching. We can choose the demographic audience. We can turn up at exactly the right time. And it’s like, right. $4 a day. It doesn’t sound like much, but if you have 20 of those videos, all of a sudden you’re spending like $80 a day on amplifying your channel.
And when a view kind of comes in for about three to 4 cents with a strategy in a rack up quite a heavy amount of use every single day, that high quality, your sort of audience. And, you’d have to worry about what the algorithm is going to pick you up on that you’re forcing your way through to get your audience.
Once we don’t care about how many subscribers you’re generating. You can always check in on that later. Just be like, here’s how many earns subscribers I’ve got or how many earned views I’ve got, which is people who watched your video and then continue to watch other videos. But we’ve seen videos that haven’t really been doing anything almost get brought up by the algorithm organically and get a huge amount of exposure organically, just because we’ve kind of given it a bit of a kickstart with some ad budget.
We don’t want to promise that that will be they a great strategy. It’s something we’re trying to nail down and get better at. But, we’re seeing that more and more is that as we spend some money on these videos, they get naturally more exposure organically as well. So, yeah, it’s it, it was just a shift in thinking so to speak that got us to the point where like we had to start thinking of brand like brand advertisers or performance brand advertisers, as opposed
To direct responsible.
As we watch the videos, as you know, we’re paying for the views and people are watching the videos as they watch the video, the algorithm is going to. Learn that, and then show them other videos recommend other channel, other videos on your channel, on your YouTube homepage because you’re watching these other videos.
So it’s that snowball effect that you’re talking about.
Yeah, exactly. Like, so I would probably say that. I’m, I’m skilled up on the organic side, but I won’t know as much as you do on the organic side of YouTube and all the other experts that are out there, there’s probably things that I’m missing from the strategy. So feel free to reach out if anyone’s listening to this and they think, oh, I’ve got, you’re missing a huge thing about YouTube, organic, that you could also apply to this.
Like we’re all ears. We’re just looking at this from a standpoint of like, how do we spend money to grow the channel quicker? But in the right way, you know, not done in a way, which is just like, Hey, we can pay for views, but ruin the channel along the, at the same time with like really, really low retention, with doing this where it’s like retention’s higher typically than the organic, retention, because we can just dial it into exactly the right audience.
And then that’s why these videos start getting more amplification and more organic growth.
I think that, and that just brings me back to like, why, like thinking through again, why I asked that question, it now even way more makes sense your explanation there, but also you can do this. And if you don’t do it correctly, as you said before, Tom, like it can have a negative impact on your channel because if people aren’t watching much of your videos, because YouTube is algorithm looks so highly on the retention rate, how long people are watching your videos, if you’re paying this money and no one’s watching that can negatively impact their overall channel and, you know, YouTube recommending the videos and so forth.
So Th the little light bulb went off for me, basically. It was like, oh, okay. Got it. That is part of the art of what you’re talking about, how to do this in a way that positively impacts the channel rather than negatively impacts the channel.
Yeah, exactly. There’s a huge concern that personally, whenever we work with any channel and that’s what we always test it on our own stuff first to be like, well, has this negatively impact, like have all these tests negatively impacts the videos, exposure, really difficult thing to measure because it’s not like we have.
A huge amount of it. It’s kind of like once you’ve done it, you’ve done it. You can’t do a split test of, well, how do these videos? Because every video is got a life of its own. But the, we’ve been analyzing across lots and lots of videos, any video we have wroted we look at like, what’s the organic exposure half-life so to speak, like as, as time goes on, where would we expect every day, the number of views to go.
And it’s never been negative from running ads, even if we didn’t run them that positively. And from the first week, let’s say, if even the retention wasn’t great in the first week, while we’re testing things, It’s still has never had a negative impact. but that’s something that’s a big concern to us is like to say, well, we don’t wanna just run these ads, get a bad retention.
And all of a sudden the whole channel is broken or something. That’s kind of like
Worry that we’ve had for a long time. And it’s probably stopped us from doing strategies like this. we’ve been testing that and keeping our eye on that for every video we’ve ever run and never seen any negative impact yet.
So that’s been really encouraging. And I think that a lot of the organic experts worry about running ads in a channel. And we run loads of Dora response ads that have very, very low retention rates by the very fact that they’re an ad like a pre-roll ad and that’s never had a negative impact on the channel either.
And so I look at this and they’re like, I don’t think ads have a negative impact on a channel, but I think they can have a positive impact. Cause you’re starting to prove out that these videos get more views and then earn views from that as well. So, especially, that’s why I love like linking the three videos together.
Because if you say this is a three-part. Put them into a playlist as well, but LinkedIn to each other YouTube really score that highly, but they say someone’s watched this video and went to go and watch another one of your videos. That’s an earned view. that earned view is a big indicator to YouTube that your content is good and therefore is likely to get far more organic reach to it as well.
So, and you get much more watch time and things like that as well. So there’s a lot of positives happening here, that I’m, there’s probably a lot of positives that are not fully aware of, but we’re very careful not to run ads in the wrong way.
As they’re talking to here, I’m eating my words about like question earlier. Like what’s so like, why is it taken so long? There’s a lot to this. Like there’s a lot more than meets the eye and that you all are thinking about and like, okay, how do we do this in a way to that? It’s not going to negatively impact the channel and do it the right way and make sure that we’re not just, targeting this Willy nilly.
Like we’re getting very specific with our targeting. Speaking of the targeting. What are, and I know that you’re, you’re a little bit familiar with, you know, Facebook ads targeting and so forth. What are the primary differences from a targeting perspective on YouTube? Like from the sense of like, you know, on Facebook, we have interest targeting so we can target, people have an interest in whatever wall street journal, kind of options do we have on.
Yeah. So you’ve got loads of options on YouTube for this particular strategy is probably for that, I think the best here. And I ignore remarketing for a second. You can still do remarketing of your, anyone who watched your videos or has been to your sites. And that’s always a good strategy to run this sort of thing for remarketing as well.
I would say that there’s there’s placement targeting, which is what you’re saying. I want to show up in front of these videos here or these channels here. and so you can literally say to me, You just getting the URLs of the videos you want to show in front of our will along the side, I should say, because you’re not getting in front of them.
You’re kind of more you’re being there when the people are watching those videos. So placements can be great. Great for attention. and you can be very granular about which videos work and which ones don’t. And so you can pause at the ones that don’t work. you can also use keyword targeting that can work really well as well.
So good for high retention because it’s, again, it’s search-based traffic and, you know, that people have been looking for this and they just so happen to see your thumbnail in the listings as a paid ad. They’re like, yeah. Great. That’s exactly what I’m looking for. So that’s always good. depending on your niche that you’re working in, then there’s sometimes topic targeting that can be really strong.
So we’ve got some clients in the health space. And, there’s some really good audiences, or I should say topics, around health. So these are kind of bracketed together, content that you can say, right. If anyone’s looking up the, the stalls or videos, like wellbeing, videos, then let’s use that topic as a way of advertising and that’s worked really well for us.
And then you have. What’s called custom intent. changing the names all the time, by the way, at the moment, choose a iOS updates. the customers call them segments instead of audiences. it’s just a glimpse into the future of where this is all going. yeah, there’s some, you can build audiences to yourself based off keywords that people might be typing into Google and YouTube, or even websites that people visit as well.
Hey, Google. You’ve got so much data on, on everybody. the people that go to this website, can you just build an audience of those types of people and that’s what I’ll do. And then you can say, great. Well, when they come to YouTube, they’ll see my video thumbnail so those are, those are great ways of targeting your audiences with this strategy.
You just need to be careful that you’re looking at the retention rates and saying, we need to keep this nice and high, or at least match the benchmark of what. Organic datasets. that’ll feed the algorithm, the right data.
You mentioned remarketing. how has that incorporate, is that incorporated into your strategy here for people? Let’s just say people watch, you know, part one of that video, the three part series that you’re mentioning, that’s this example. They watch video number one, but they don’t watch video two.
Are you remarketing to them to get them to watch the next video?
Yes, and no. So, we don’t like to rely on remarketing for anything when we’re working with clients. because once we do it, I just don’t want to rely on it to be. That’s the strategy here, because it’s not going to help you really grow. Like we’re waiting for that audience to fill up in order for us to actually run the ads to that audience.
So they have to have to watch that video. Then it’s like, okay, if it was a three parts and then we would do it because it’s like, you’re geared up for that. But typically if there’s video content that we want to amplify, we’re looking for cold traffic. We’re looking to say, can we get this to work to cold traffic?
Cause then we can scale it. The, I think a lot of agencies really rely heavily on remarketing activity to start with. you get such great results in month. One, you burned through that audience and then month two, it looks terrible because you haven’t filled up that audience again. And what we’re kind of doing is brand awareness.
We’re actually filling up remarketing audiences. That’s one of the biggest things that’s great about this is that when you do this in the right way and you get great retention rates, all the views you’re paying. It can be collected as well as like all these people that have viewed your content can then see other content.
You can either run more discovery ads to them as a build out relationship in further with. Or you could just run in stream ads, those people then as well, you can say, right, let’s get in front of them with brand awareness videos, get a retention high, make sure we’re building really, really good audiences.
Then run a in-stream ads to those people that saw that content to then go sign up for your webinar. Then you’re really getting the best of both worlds from the strategy as well. and that’s why I say. It’s brand performance, as opposed to just brand awareness. It’s like saying we’re putting the brand first.
We’re getting them to really know, like, and trust you with your content. And then your industry in ads will land so much better with that customer as well. that’s a, it’s a good strategy, but I’m always a case of looking at things and saying, great. I could probably get great results.
Every marketing. I’m not so in control of that and how long that’ll go for. I’m not sure if I had to say cold traffic, the pool is endless and
Then we can try to figure something out.
Is there a, Niche for like channel niche that you mentioned health, a couple of like wellness and stuff like that. Are there, is there any types of channels that this wouldn’t work for that you’ve seen? Like, you know what, it’s just the audio, it’s just too niche or it’s like the audiences aren’t really big enough to really scale.
Yeah, good question. I would like that always to be some sort of natural search on YouTube for confidence content. Like if you were selling a heavy machinery or something like that, I’d be like, YouTube might be good for you. But I would say that would be a harder game to crack. I think if you’re selling, like, I don’t know anything B to B, anything like what you’re selling to a particular type of person that sits inside of a big corporate company or something.
This might be a lot tougher, this strategy, because the other thing about Google and the way that it works, it’s not many people know this, but as you start going to smaller and smaller and smaller audiences, The way that the algorithm works or they just shuts it down and says, you can’t get in front of that traffic.
And therefore you can’t spend any money. It just won’t work. Or the algorithm goes a bit haywire and says, all right, those people great. And then the algorithm be like, well, I need to spend the money and I’m gonna have to put it in front of somebody. And you start realizing that like, hang on a second. We were targeting males.
Now females are watching the video or vice versa or something like it starts to ignore some of your targeting that you’ve set up. So I would say that those companies that work in very, very particular niches, that there isn’t a natural YouTube platform where search behavior is already happening, I would probably say, yeah, it might be one a second step back from that.
But, it’s more, the content that I think is the biggest, the, the hair. So if you were to create content like how to content is good, it’s harder to work in this strategy. Sometimes the best content is a bit more inspiration. You can still be learning within it, but it might be better to do things like, I don’t know, the five best way here, sort of five new ways to achieve this or something, or what I learned from this experience or a day in the life of, or transformations or stories, case studies, that type of stuff, or just like a deep dive into a topic, you know, where someone’s coming in.
And the way I think about this is like, I think we’ve spoken about it before this way. I think. Customer types on YouTube as you’ve got like the window shopper, you’ve got a store shopper and you’ve got a checkout shopper. So there’s the three levels of customer awareness, so to speak. And so if you had a bricks and mortar store, you’d have people check out shop, it’d be like the remarketing audiences, people who know your brand ready to make a purchase.
The, the store shoppers will be like all that search activity. They’re kind of talking to your sales rep in the store and asking questions and wanting to find out lots of information. And then you’ve got the wind window shoppers that are more the interest based audiences. They’re outside looking through the window and quite interested about what it is like your window of your shop to stop them in their tracks.
And they want to have a look. They may not be ready to buy anything. It’s easier to think of these
Humans, so to speak because they exist in real life rather than just data points on an ad platform. and what you’re trying to do is create content, still target with search activity, but create content as if you’re creating it for a window shopper.
So you have to. Have very inspiring video content that they’re not looking for right now. So how to use a kind of attracts a smaller audience, whereas like, if you had to talk about the, the marketing breakthrough you’ve had, or a breakdown or an autopsy of a particular funnel or a strategy or anything like that, where it’s like, that’s grabbing my attention on the watch that, and if it’s really good, then I just love your brand.
And I love what it is you are all about. And within that video, You can be clever about, the ways you phrase, what you do in your company and how you do things. So you’re subtly selling what it is you do, but you’re kind of more talking about your backstory or what your values are as a business and how your methodology works.
So people are getting a glimmer or glimpse into what it is that you. Brand does. And also in they’re like, well, hang on a second. Maybe I should check out this. Rick guy seems to be pretty cool. and it was on you’ve generated a new customer. so that’s kind of the way to there, the ways that the type of content works best.
What you just said. There is everything we’ve been talking about as far as attracting your customers, that you want to be attract into your business, because all the different topics that you just mentioned, and I am not an organic, I’m not a YouTube expert in any way.
I’m learning a lot right now, but all those topics that you just mentioned, Tom are not like algorithm friendly topics that. You know, like, I think it is more like the, how to, you know, that the algorithm likes those sorts of things. Cause people are searching on that stuff, but like all the things that you just mentioned, probably not algorithm friendly, but yet that type of content, those types of videos are when put in front of the right.
People are going to bring those perfect customers. If you will, over to your channel. And do everything that you’re just that you’re saying here. And I think that is a really, if everybody listening right now, like this is the beauty of what Tom’s talking about here. This is where you build your YouTube channel with your ideal audience and not just random viewers that might be searching on that topic, but yet they’re not you’re right.
You know, they’re not your right customer. Yeah, what we’re doing here or what? Thomas breaking out. These are your perfect customers.
So true. And I I’ve worked with organic people before and they’ve told me the strategy of saying, Hey, what you really want to do is make a list of all the SEO terms. Start creating content for that. Because then when you do that, you’ll get the rankings. Maybe we’ll find your content. And then afterwards, then you bring them through to whatever you want to talk about.
But only once you’ve done a hundred videos or something on how to concept. That’s boring to me. It’s just not inspiring to me whatsoever. Like the how to stuff is not fun. It’s hard as well to kind of make it engaging and make it enjoyable. I much prefer it to be like, Hey, look, let me just talk about a topic that can be really valuable to you and give you an insight about something I learned.
I can’t even think about what the title should be too. So it’s so much as to say here’s what the SEO juice around this should be. I’m just like, you end up attracting the, I think you end up attracting the wrong person just as to give the algorithm what it is you want to give them, or I’m like, oh, if someone hears me rave and rant about, the best thing I’ve learned about YouTube ads recently, then from that I know that, and I can amplify as anyone who’s looking for YouTube.
Tutorials or something that can be like, great. If they see this video and watch it for 15 minutes, they’re very likely to reach out and contact me, you know, because I just know that the content is that good. And that’s what I feel like is for every brand that’s a business. They now have an opportunity to be like, create the content you want.
Not like for your customer, not for the algorithm. It puts you back in that seat of power. You can say, well, yes, it might not be perfect for the algorithm, but I’ll build my audience. Exactly. The right people will be fun cause I’ll do it. and then from there it’s like, great, all these videos are performing really well for you.
Then you bypass that early stage and that getting over that hump of getting the right number of subscribers. But now every time you release a video, you’ve got 70,000 people. Absolutely loving it. Commenting, writing about you. That’s when the algorithm picks you up.
Yeah. Quality over quantity. I think that what you’re talking about perfectly describes how I approach this podcast, where, you know, a lot of people talk about like, oh, like make your title something. That’s something that somebody would search for. And I never do that. You know, like I, the way that I name episodes, it leaves a lot to be desired, I think.
But it’s like, I’m speaking to the person that we help in our business and that my quote unquote target person is it’s the more established course creator and online coach, meaning like you’re more advanced in your and your business. And so. That comes up in the topics I talk about, you know, this level of conversation that we’re having is targeted to that person who was looking to diversify their traffic and, and build another asset in their business.
Writing subject lines or creating episodes necessarily that like are, I don’t think I’ve actually ever done that where it’s like, oh wait, this isn’t search worthy. Right? Because Google is now pulling up podcast in search results, but I don’t approach it that way. I’m like, I’m creating content for the people that I want to be serving.
It’s the same thing that you’re talking about here, Tom.
Yeah, exactly. And if you, if you imagine you are a brand that has like a, an ad that goes through to a webinar, or let’s say a video sales letter or something along those lines, do you think, right? You can probably calculate the value of each person that does that because you can see how many people buy and then you can track it back to how many people watch the VSL and you can realize, okay, well that person watched an ad.
That might be two minutes. Followed by a 45 minute VSL something, and then they bought a hundred dollar products from you. Let’s just say for the time being, whereas what you can do now is say, well, let’s just front load that put it all on YouTube, all that great value on for people on YouTube. And then just think about like, well, how much would it, how much would you pay to have someone watch half of your VSL or something?
And it wasn’t a website you might be like, well, I’ll pay, let’s say 25 bucks to get someone to watch half of it, because I know that they will buy the program as how much it’s worth to me. And then just saying like, oh, to get someone to watch 10 to 20 minutes of your content on YouTube probably cost you.
Maybe about 50 or something. It’s like, that’s the difference is that yes. You want to get someone to buy there and then, but they’re still experiencing your brand for 10, 20 minutes and it’s costing you a dollar it’s, it’s pretty powerful that that’s, what’s possible, you know, and then you don’t have to play the YouTube algorithm.
You can just control it yourself and build the audience you actually want.
We can talk about this as you know, for a long time. I want to kind of, as we start to wrap up, You know, one question that I have, you know, that I’m thinking about. Cause I w you and I talked about it for doing this for my channel, which I definitely want to do, but for people who, maybe early on in their channel, or maybe they have a few videos, is there a sort of a minimum number of videos that people should quote unquote have on their channel in order to do a strategy like this?
I think you’d want to have enough videos to make it feel like there’s a presence of a brand here. Not just like they’ve watched the one video and that’s all that was out on the channel. So you might want to have a few different video concepts or ideas. start having fun with your content. You know, like one of the things I would say is that the easiest content I think to create for YouTube and make it really engaging is, does it have a theme of content?
Let’s say, for example, for me, we’re starting to create content, which is like a breakdown of video ads on YouTube or any platform. So we talk about it, but I won’t just have myself talking about it sometimes I will, but I’m likely to bring on one or two guests with me. So it’s like a discussion around it and people can be.
That content to the table and I can build a network and it’s like a, like a podcast, but like almost a panel that you might bring together as well to have really engaging content. and then imagine what happens when you amplify that as well. So let’s say for example, you amplify it and you get to 50,000 to a hundred thousand views or something, and you can get to the point where you can pretty much guarantee that’s going to happen.
Then you’re like, wow, well, I can get these guests on, tell them it’s going to get a hundred thousand views because you can show the proof of the other videos you’ve done. And all of a sudden you can start booking bigger and better guests as well. So it’s like a natural growth piece to this as well. But I would say probably what, like 10 videos, at least on your channel, I would have thought would be like a good starting point to start using this amplification.
So when someone does check you out, this is more content to come see.
I love that strategy. I just, I’m saying I’m taking note of that for myself on the, on the Seattle.
That’s a big focus for us for the end of this year. And moving into next year is just to say, let’s just have.
So why you got the Roadmaster
Yeah, there we go. Yeah, exactly. But how fun would it be if like, if it was yourself and me and maybe one other and we jump on a call and we’d talk and we showcase a video and we talk about what we love and what we don’t love, and we can rip it apart for 20 minutes.
And that’s content, you know, it’s really, really engaging content and you’ve been kind of spotlighted as well as the other guests, perhaps. Then we amplify that and yeah, it’s good funds to create that continent, build your network and yet having, yeah, I think that like, if you’re growing it and having fun with it, especially if it’s your own personal channel as well, it’s easy to do it.
And, yeah, I think that video podcasting is a great way of doing it. So you probably got tons of content already. Rick, get out there and do it, man.
The day. Well, yeah, I mean, the day that we’re recording this today is actually the first day that we’ve published, both the full episode video on The Art of Online Business, full episodes channel on
We also have a clips channel. Which is The Art of Online Business clips, where we take highlights from the interviews.
And we start posting that on that. As well. So yeah, I mean, we’re at, like, I forget how many, what number episode we’re on like 560 episodes here at the show, but just recently in the past couple months started using video. and I don’t know if you heard this by the way as we wrap up here, YouTube apparently is going to be, starting their fi finally, cause I’ve been hearing about this for a long time.
They’re a podcast platform next year.
That’ll be really cool.
20, 22. Yeah. And thus, you know, prioritizing video podcasts as they do that. So
That’ll be really cool to watch.
That story. Cool. Yeah. Well, I’ll keep my ear out for that. Cause.
Always good to chat with you. I want to make sure that people can connect with you, because people, they always come to like.
I got to talk to Tom, right. I want to, I want to start working with, with, his agency and you’ve got different, you know, different opportunities to work with you, to work with you guys. So what are, what are the best ways for people to, connect.
Thank you. yeah. So the best website probably to contact us for agency related stuff is Viewability.co.uk. That’s the kind of the agency side. We do also have ad buys club, which is our consultancy arm. So that’s our buyers club.com. Or just reach out to me, like on social I’m on normally Facebook or messenger is a good platform.
Contact me and, yeah, whilst we’re not necessarily, right now able to take on more clients for the amplification thing, we we’re gearing up with building the software internally to make us go faster and then get the team built around that. And so very soon in early 2018, too, we should be in a place to start building from there.
So that’s really exciting. That’s kind of a big focus for us at the time at the moment, but, yeah, we’re getting around to it slowly but surely.
Awesome. Viewability.co.uk. And. Pretty impressive. You got ad buyer’s club.com as the, as the domain.
Ah, well, we bought ad buyers.com as well. We actually got that, our buyer’s club was available. the ABC wasn’t available, abc.com wasn’t available, unfortunately.
Or if it is that it’s going to cost a fortune.
Yeah. There’s people out there buying different variations of this, of this domain for you. And I’m going to come back and offer it to you like, Hey Tom, you could have this, I bought this. I have to listen to the show. look up Tom on, Facebook messenger.
Tom is, you know, I’m not going to promise a response time, but he is on messenger quite a bit. So, definitely connect with Tom. Let him know you heard him on the show here.
Dude, thank you so much for coming on here and breaking this. This is really cool, and I’m, I’m super excited about it.
Once we get some videos going on on my channel to do this strategy, I’ll have you back on again to share what we’ve been doing together for my channel, and talk about the results and what worked, what didn’t work. It’ll be fun to share that.
I’d love that.
Thank you, my man.
Super appreciate you.
Hey, so all of Tom’s links and how to get in touch with Tom are linked up over on the show notes for today’s episode, which you can find at RickMulready.com.
Look at the podcast section. You’ll see this episode here with the show notes page. All the links are right there. Definitely reach out to Tom. He and his agency are literally, as I mentioned at the very beginning of the show, one of the best in the entire world at what they do.
I refer all of my Accelerator members who are looking to do YouTube ads and so forth, to Tom and his agency. When you reach out to him, let him know that you heard him on the podcast here.
Also, we are accepting applications from my Accelerator coaching program.
So, if you’re a more established online course creator or online coach, and by established, I mean, you are already generating at least $100K a year in your online business, and you’re looking to take things to the next level, but you’re not really sure what next steps to be taking. You are likely overwhelmed in your business. You’re doing all the things in your business, what we help you do inside of Accelerator is increase your profit, increase your impact with less hustle.
Because you’re already doing enough, right? Let’s reduce that, and get you even bigger results in the process. That is exactly what we help you do.
It’s one-on-one coaching, group coaching, and a mastermind experience all wrapped up into one awesome program.
So, if you want to learn more and apply, just go to RickMulready.com/Accelerator.
Alright, my friends, as always, super appreciate you. Hope you enjoy today’s episode with Tom.
Got a ton more awesome stuff coming your way in the next episode. Until then, my friends, be well, and I’ll talk to you soon.