For today’s show, we’re going deep and talking about how to ethically use subconscious selling to improve your marketing and increase your sales. Joining me to talk about this is my friend Jim Fortin.
Jim is an expert on this stuff and he has over 20 years experience in subconscious selling and high performance using neurolinguistics and behavioral science. Jim has created a powerful new selling technique, which he calls NeuroPersuasion®.
As you’ll hear, what Jim teaches can do things like shorten your selling cycles and significantly improve your sales performance very quickly. In this episode, we dive into how to use brain triggers and pattern interruptions in your ads, what it means to use metaphorical imagery in your marketing (and what this can do for you), ways to demonstrate your offer to differentiate yourself from others and a whole lot more.
We haven’t talked about a lot of these concepts on the podcast before, and this is an episode that you’re probably going to want to listen to multiple times (and take lots of notes!) to fully grasp the fascinating topics that Jim is talking about today.
On the Show Today You’ll Learn:
- How Jim not only wraps his knowledge of behavioral research around not only NLP, but conversational hypnosis
- Why just about everyone in sales and marketing is working “backwards”
- The amazing discovery about the brain and the decision making process – how major corporations are using it in their advertising (and you can too)
- Why trying to be better than the competition is the wrong approach to take…
- Jim’s practical and tactical advice for marketers doing webinars
- How you can start entering the conversation your prospect is already having in his or her brain – and the immediate results you will see
- Tips for using language patterns and suggestions ethically and effectively
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Links & Resources Mentioned in this Episode
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Transcription of Today’s Episode
[00:00:00] We are going to go deep here today my friends are already talking about how to ethically use subconscious selling to improve your marketing and increase your sales. And joining me to talk about this today is my friend Jim Forton. Who’s the show are bringing the best tips.
[00:00:20] Tactics and strategies for using paid traffic to grow your business on autopilot. You also hear what’s working and not working right now. From the top minds an online marketing tool that you can get more leads and sales every day without. Having to empty your wall in the process. All right. Let’s dip into it.
[00:00:41] Hey what is up. Everyone welcome back to the art of Petrović podcast. I’m your host Rick Mulready. And this is episode number 173 really appreciate you for give me your time today. Hope all is going well. Whatever you’re up to. If you are listening to this on Wednesday January 10th the day that it comes out this podcast episode comes out. My wife and I are on a plane right now to Paris. We are heading back there again. We love that city. We were just back there in June of 2017 just about 6 1/2 months ago and we’re heading back to hang out there for a few weeks and work from there. And I’m really excited about it and while I’m over there are going to be doing a one day Facebook ads and business strategy workshop in London which I’m pumped about. I get asked all the time about what I want to be doing you know live workshops in Europe. Well decided to do it when we’re over there for this trip and I’m really excited about doing that. So on the show today we’re going to be talking about something that we’ve never talked about here on the show. And that is how to ethically use subconscious selling to improve your marketing and increase your sales. Well what the heck does all of that mean. Well joining me today to share his expertise with this topic is Jim Forten. And Jim is an expert with over 20 years of expertise in subconscious selling and high performance using neural linguistics and behavioral science.
[00:02:05] Jim has created a powerful new selling technology which he calls neuro persuasion. We’re going be talking about that here today. Now these persuasive techniques can do things like help you shorten your selling cycles and significantly improve your sales performance really quickly. And Jim teaches this subconscious influence which is all about how to get into people’s heads and how to affect them subconsciously on an ethical level. So specifically I know you’re listening to this right now Rick what are you talking about. RICK Well this is where we’re going to be diving into here specifically today how do you use brain triggers and pattern interruptions in your ads to get your audience’s attention more quickly. We’re talking about what it means to use metaphorical imagery in your ads and how it can get people to take action for you. What high contrast means and how you can use it to position your offers. We talk about ways that you can demonstrate your offer or product in a way that’s different than everything else that’s out there. We get into how to improve your webinars by making tangible payoffs in the webinars and what exactly that means. We talk about how to enter the conversation that your target audience is already having in their mind. So they will follow you. How to use hypnotic conversational language to get people to take action. And a whole lot more. I told you where to go deep on this stuff today. We’ve never covered this topic here on the show and this was a really interesting conversation that I have here with Jim you may want to listen to this episode a couple of times to really let things dig in get your notebooks out.
[00:03:46] Get The Voice Memos out whatever you have to do to take some notes during the episode here today we go into a lot of great stuff here with Jim. So without further ado let’s jump into it with Jim Forten.
[00:03:57] Jim super excited to welcome me to the black cast. How’s it going man man. I’m doing well and it’s good to be here today. Well we met finally for the first time at James Wedmore as BBT live a few weeks ago in Laguna Beach and was supposed to have you on the show right after that I got sick with the flu. And here we are a couple of weeks later. So really excited to have you on because we’ve not talked you were talking about something that we’ve not talked about here on the show when We’ve probably talked about it many different times but not in the way that we’re going to be talking about it here today and that’s all about persuasion and influence and how the brain works and stuff like that and how we can leverage this knowledge with our online marketing and our online advertising and before. So that’s for all those reasons. And we also make it a little woo here today which is totally cool with me. It’s right up my alley. You know my listeners in my audience has started to understand that that’s something that’s really important to me and my life and something that drives a lot of the stuff that I do both in my business and my life. So I’m really said that jump in this stuff. But before we do let’s let’s start with you. Let’s let’s talk about who you are or what you’re up to right now and what your background is everything OK before we do that.
[00:05:10] I want to actually hook everybody though and tell you that on this podcast you’re going to start learning how to persuade and how to influence your prospects and clients subconsciously. You’re going to learn how to crawl under their brain and push buttons in their brain and they don’t even know that it’s happening. So I want to lay that down first because they’re here for that first step but about me. Let me give you a little background here. I have been doing this 25 years and I I’m sure you’ve heard of helping neuro linguistic programming. Yes. OK. Well this is not really when I say persuasion and influence.
[00:05:41] People think oh I’ll pee and there’s a little bit of that but I’m also a master hypnotist and people do not know that years ago that hypnosis was endorsed by the American Medical Association.
[00:05:54] Now they changed the way that they endorse things. But Harvard Stanford Yale Columbia all the major medical schools National Institute of Health they endorse hypnosis for healing and behavioral change. But here’s a takeaway for us on this call today. Many years ago I used to work at the hypnosis Institute in New York City and a client of mine who was a vice president over at Goldman Sachs and he came in to stop smoking very first session. He stopped smoking. He came back again and he asked me how I got him to stop smoking just by talking to him. And plain and simple as I will talk about today I had late suggestions I let him. I paced him. I planted suggestions that he wanted subconsciously and he shifted in his chair and he said you know what I work with high net worth clients.
[00:06:36] Can you show me how to persuade and influence my clients subconsciously. And that’s where all of us was born for me and I’m like yeah if I can do this for smoking and I can get you to stop smoking then why can’t I get you to buy. And so what I’ve done I’ve taken all the tools the hypnotist would use and map them over into business and sales and advertising and marketing. And then for years also I’ve followed behavioral research so I brought the behavioral research around neuro linguistics around which we’ll talk about today conversational hypnosis. I’ve done this for a lot of years and my expertise is subconscious persuasion influence selling and performance. In a nutshell. I love it.
[00:07:17] I’m super excited. You got to be hooked. I took a note a minute and 20 seconds into the conversation. We’re hooked I’m hooked to dive into this stuff. You know we’ve talked about this a little bit before going live here and one of the first things that you said to me was that just about everybody in sales and marketing works backwards. You know we’re talking about this. We’re trying to persuade and influence not in a negative way but we’re trying to get people to purchase from us. And in this whole world of sales and marketing people working backwards they work from the conscious side of the brain when research in our conversation here. You were saying that that research has shown that 95 percent of all buying decisions are unconscious or actually on the right side of the brain not left brain which is where everyone tends to focus. Can you kind of start to unpack that and break that down a bit.
[00:08:10] Absolutely and let me frame that actually we can even talk about framing in a bit. Every one of you the fact that you’re here listening to this podcast means that you want to increase your sales. Now that being said stay with me all the way through the podcast because you’re going to hear things today that you’ve never heard before. Now let’s start with what you just asked him to comment about right brain buying back in 2007 and other other universities have demonstrated this and proven this. But in 2007 the Max Planck Institute in Leipzig Germany which is one of the foremost research institutes in the world they’ve got 43 Nobel Prize winning scientists contributing content. What they discovered. Let me just explain as they put people in an F M R machine a functional magnetic resonance imaging machine.
[00:08:53] And they asked them to make a decision a or b and they did as they watched the blood flow in the brain as the person was analytically thinking about the decision that were going to make. What they discovered is that our brains our brains make our decisions for us even while we think we’re actually analytically making a decision. What I discovered gets crazy is that what they discovered is up to 95 percent of all decisions that we make including buying decisions and responding to Facebook ads are subconsciously determined even if we don’t recognize it. Interesting.
[00:09:30] So how do we leverage that. So how do we leverage that as as an online marketer as a local business owner as you know selling e-commerce whatever that might be. How do we leverage this to our advantage.
[00:09:43] Okay there’s a couple of ways. And major companies let’s start there. Let’s start with Apple and Doritos and different companies and then we’ll actually leverage down into the Facebook ads before we get there very quickly three parts of the brain the oldest part of the brain which you probably heard of it’s called the reptilian brain.
[00:09:59] It’s fear based fight or flight that’s the part of the brain that literally responds to an ad the most middle part of the brain called the mammalian brain that has emotional brain and then top of the head front you know above the forehead is the prefrontal cortex which is a thinking part of the brain. We are driven by the reptilian part of the brain which is the fear part of the brain. But what everybody actually addresses or added to is the thinking part of the brain which is a part of the brain that does not buy. Now let’s address your question how do we leverage the US. OK let’s go with Apple first. Did you actually go back to Campbell’s soup. We all know the Campbell’s Soup label right. You’ve seen it for many years. OK. Back in 2000 and 8 or 9 I’m not sure which year. What they did is they put people in an MRI machine and they watch blood flow in the brain as they looked at the old label and they looked at new representations of the old label. Now you probably haven’t noticed but their label changed from the iconic label of 100 years ago it changed about seven eight nine years ago. What they discovered is that when they change the picture they put steam above the bowl and they take the spoon out. What they’ve discovered is that that has a better impact in terms of likability on the brain than the older picture.
[00:11:15] So the V.P. of Marketing at Campbell Soup said that they wanted to actually which they did changed her picture to make a bigger unconscious impact and their consumers. So they’re using stuff like this and of course we don’t all have an MRI machine at home but they’re doing stuff like this to subconsciously influence buyers. Now Apple do use Apple to use Android.
[00:11:41] I’m an Apple user. Yep. Ok. You have an iPod. OK. Do you have an iPad.
[00:11:46] Yes. I don’t have an iPod actually I have an iPhone. I have two MacBook Pro laptops no iPod though.
[00:11:53] Got it. OK. When they started designing their iPad what they did is they also put people in at MRI machines and they watch blood flow in the brain what they wanted to determine is they wanted to actually design an iPad that would release endorphins in the brain which make us feel good. And what they wanted to do is they wanted to what’s called neural associate. They wanted this to neural associate that feel good feeling to that iPad which we do. And they designed it quite literally in the way that best stimulated the brain. Why. Because they want us to buy so many many companies do this. These are large companies we can’t afford to do that. You know normal online marketers. But the way that we can do it and everyone listening now is I’d like to talk about some brain triggers and some influential language how we can get hooks on the brain and they don’t even know that it’s happening.
[00:12:42] Yeah I was just going to say like they we’re going because it’s like it’s so interesting from a product standpoint. But then how from a language and a marketing standpoint and the positioning. How is that affected by what you’re talking about.
[00:12:57] Got it. Well let’s start there. Let’s talk about brain triggers not social triggers or someone else online who talks about social triggers and social triggers are around. Robert Shields and his work which I’m guessing you’re familiar with right. Absolutely. Yeah you know reciprocity commitment consistency scarcity authority liking and such. However what I want to talk about and what I want people to get takeaways from today is brain triggers and the first one is this.
[00:13:22] You’re old enough and a lot of people aren’t. Do you remember the guy back in the 90s on TV that the commercials you name is Matthew Lesko and I used to have a book and a program about how to get money from the government.
[00:13:34] There’s any that ring a bell yet again that picture could make the guys name rings a bell. I don’t remember I don’t remember that exactly. If you describe a little bit more I could probably get it.
[00:13:46] Exactly. Stop right there because I wanted to see if you got it. Yes. Now do you remember the guy that ran around with a suit like a Riddler suit and he had question marks or money literally yeah.
[00:13:57] Got it. OK. That was 20 years ago many years ago. And your last.
[00:14:01] They were laughing and other people listening are probably going Yeah I remember that dude from 20 years ago. But do you remember a Panasonic commercial from 20 years ago. I do not. OK. The reason why. Here’s step number one what you have to do guys as marketers. I mean it has to be and I’m going to actually clap my hands to help here it’s got to be bam just like that. You have to literally get their attention immediately and your ads and there are several ways you can do that a way that we kind of did it. I didn’t get to the cross as strongly as I wanted. But what you want to do is you want to actually start with something shocking something startling something they don’t know or something that makes people go hmm I did not know that because see we operate on autopilot all day long. We literally do demonstrate that Rick and everyone else listening. How many times you’ve been driving your in your head and you almost miss your exit. Oh yeah yeah. All the time. Yeah. So we operate as beings on autopilot and that’s why for example a good example of this on TV tele overdosed a couple of years ago who was the pitch man that would scream out you remember his name.
[00:15:08] The guy with the beard. Yeah. Yeah I remember his name. BAILEY MAY. Billy Mays Yeah yeah.
[00:15:13] Course the reason he would do that. That’s called a pattern interrupt because we go through our days on autopilot and he had to interrupt our patterns to get our attention. So what you want to do in your ads is you want to get somebody attention by starting of something shocking something they didn’t know something again that makes them go wow I didn’t know that. Now you pulled the attention. Does that make sense. Absolutely yep yep. Well that leads to the second. Any questions about that before we go to the next one.
[00:15:46] No not necessarily because it’s so it’s it completely makes sense in my brain immediately goes to it’s like OK how do we do this within like say for Facebook ads for example how do we do it within Facebook ads policy. You know so it’s it’s still on the positive side. And it’s you know so I mean that’s certainly going to be case by case. But yes totally get what you’re seeing here using these brain triggers and this pattern interrupts to to get attention. Got it.
[00:16:11] Let me add something there. You can even use words or color which will go to next. OK. OK. Like even if you put the word in brackets and you put shocking. And then you put something mild and something banal that in itself even words like that even like that or the word terror or some word like that even gets people’s attention.
[00:16:30] Got it. OK.
[00:16:31] Yeah I was listening. I don’t know why I was meant as a political science and psych major in college but I was listening to some old Ronald Reagan speeches and of course he had speechwriters. And he said he goes. And one of his lines in 1981 or so said the average American is afraid of the terror of what’s going to happen next to them economically. And I thought Damn that’s really good that he put the word terror in there and that word is a word that actually engages us emotionally about that one word. He’s already pulling people in. That makes sense right. Absolutely. Yep. Perfect. OK. Next one is imagery. We actually are we think in imagery for the most part. All me back up here because not everybody’s predominantly visual were other predominantly visual kinesthetic which is feeling or auditory but you have an iPhone. Do you remember reading the very long instruction manual when you got it.
[00:17:24] I did not. There’s no instruction manual. Yeah.
[00:17:29] It’s all imagery. The right hand side of the brain thinks and processes imagery. So as much metaphorical imagery that you can use in your ads and again you know we’re marketers everything is about guessing and testing. You put it up you see what’s going to work. But when I’m doing presentations or even with my ads I’m doing my best to use metaphorical imagery because the brain also thinks very well and metaphor. I can say for example that car is really fast or that car moves like a scalded cat. You understand it’s called the cat. It makes sense right away. That was actually you know that’s stronger than a Texas tornado right. You get metaphore Yeah. So the more metaphor that we can talk in or the more imagery that illustrates metaphor the more quite literally we’re talking to the brain because your brain and everyone else’s brain see words are left brain and analytical. So if I’m going to read an ad I have to process that prefrontal cortex and that’s analytical yet and I’ve got to think about it and people read very slow because that’s way you’ve been trained and trained read very slow as a culture and a world. However if I have an image there the brain reads an image and two tenths of a second before it ever even thinks about the imagery. That makes sense right. Yep yeah. And you can also use color there. Do you know what the most effective color at polling eye is.
[00:18:52] I want to take a total guess. Yellow.
[00:18:55] Yeah you’re right. Is it really actually. Yeah right. How like a a bright fluorescent yellow.
[00:19:01] Ding ding ding you get the prize. Wait did you say that earlier. Did you like Drop it in there. I actually just picked up on it. Or maybe I could have said yes I’m kidding. Yellow you know that colors actually.
[00:19:14] That’s why they use it at sea because you can see it the farthest distance through haze and through fog makes sense yeah. So I saw an ad recently that pulled my eye to the right hand side of Facebook. It was the ad and the picture. But it was framed in the yellow and boom and immediately pulled my attention. Literally my brain no analytical thought it pulled my brain to the right hand side of the page. Makes sense. Yeah for sure. Or something I saw an ad one time something different. I saw an ad that somebody had literally placed the picture upside down and then that caught my attention boom because it’s different which will go into next it pulled me right away. And then the headline was Is your marketing upside down. And I’m like damn that’s creative. They really just because it demonstrated it metaphorically with the picture and then the text after that they had me and stuff.
[00:20:06] I love it. Makes sense right. Absolutely yeah. Any questions about imagery.
[00:20:10] No. Got it. That’s. That makes total that makes little sense I mean because we’re always trying to you know cause we can be so literal in our in our imagery in our in our images that we’re doing the ads and stuff like that. And of course that works but when you can get that sort of as you’re saying Jim metaphorical imagery and again it’s how can we convey the overall message of what we’re trying of offer with the ad while getting the attention and doing it in a creative way. In this we’re talking about here.
[00:20:42] Yeah. And what I’m giving you guys just take one or two of these brain triggers and just start playing with them. And obviously you know we’re looking at conversions. You know if you tried to do all eight not knowing this stuff it’s going to be a bit of a chore. But if you just start taking one and you start working with it and then add something else you’ll get better conversions much better conversions. Love it. Real quickly a high contrast is the way everyone write this down. High Contrast what everyone tries to do is they try to be better than their competition. And that’s the wrong approach. What you want to do is it’s better to be different than it is to be better.
[00:21:17] It’s better to be different than it is than it is to be better.
[00:21:19] Got it okay. How do we qualify better. And that’s that’s the conversation right now. Sure. That’s happening at the university level is that all the elite schools. It’s hard for actually candidates that are like an extremely qualified candidates are not getting in because they’ve got so much top tier talent. They can’t tell one top tier talent from another top tier talent. They all look the same. So the concept is called high contrast and this is brain based. The brain actually thinks it has the world figured out and when it sees something it doesn’t look like everything else the brain goes Whoa OK that’s something new.
[00:21:54] It pulls my attention. So the higher contrast meaning the higher difference between you and your competition automatically pulls attention and captivates the brain. Guys this is really really important. So you remember Matthew Lesko. Why. Because he was different. Yeah right. I remember all the Super Bowl commercials and a lot of us watch Super Bowls for obviously the game and commercials. Can you tell me five commercials you’ve seen in the past 10 years let’s see.
[00:22:27] Well you mentioned earlier doritos i mentioned i remember doritos i remember Budweiser with the Clydesdales. OK.
[00:22:36] Anything stand out. Like wow. Damn that was a good commercial.
[00:22:40] I remember there being like a little puppy yours he’s always good. Yeah exactly.
[00:22:47] I’ve never with the Doritos. Remember I don’t remember exactly what it was. I remember that it was a user contest so they ran that like they know they had people create these commercials and submit them. And the winning one showed during the Super Bowl. So remember that are exactly what it was.
[00:23:09] It’s interesting you only remember what it was part of it. I don’t remember the brand. Let me give you an example I remember. You want one because it appealed to me emotionally was a singular cellular back in 2000 or so by a guy named Keung gamp GMP who painted with his head. He was he didn’t have cerebral palsy and he painted amazing pictures using a paintbrush on his head. I remember that because it appealed to me emotionally. Want to remember a couple of years ago guys was E-Trade. I think it was Scott E-Trade. Oh yeah he had two chimpanzees beating on a drum beating on buckets. And they go we just blew 3 million dollars on chimpanzees beating on buckets. And I was like How does a really really good. Yeah that is but I remember because it’s different than everything else. Yeah. So here’s your take away guys here’s your meat and potatoes you create high contrast by being new unique and different. The brain looks and scans for a new unique and different. So Rick you probably wash your clothes and tide before detergent right. Yep. What does tie do every two years there abouts. What do they change their label to.
[00:24:19] I have no idea. New and improved. They change it has been always has always measures every several years you notice new and improved tide. OK.
[00:24:29] OK I feel like what was I was sure of my clothes prior. Exactly. But yeah new and you see people using ads will put new like new training and brackets at the beginning. Yeah. These are brain triggers these are things that are literally they literally pull the tension or the brain. So what you want to look for is new in your product or your service. How can you position it as new unique or different. So my positioning statement is I tell people because it is true that I’m the leader in subconscious sales and performance. It’s different people are like What is the subconscious influence mean. But I position myself as the leader in subconscious styling and performance that makes me unique and that separates me from all the other sales trainers out there because they’re all blabbing the same stuff right. Yup yup. So OK so that’s high contrast guys right that they are new unique and different.
[00:25:18] All right. Any questions about that one. Now I’m taking a bunch of notes here. Jen will be on the show notes page for her today. I do actually have a question. So we’re talking about metaphorical imagery. You know these high contrast new unique and different. What are some simple ways for people to kind of start with this. You know they’re like people get it like OK cool. I need to use some metaphorical imagery to catch attention and use as you know as a pattern interrupt or a brain trigger where might they start with that. Or on the flip side with from being looking at you know new unique and different being these keys to standing out where can they sort of start with one of these things.
[00:25:57] I think that’s the question in that way and that’s a great question is you ask yourself whatever your product is that you’re advertising on Facebook. You ask yourself how can I position this and start my headline with this being New unique and different. And it can be as simple as putting in brackets. The word new or different because I’ll pull somebody to attention right away.
[00:26:18] Yeah but in that one sentence how can you actually what’s called reframing how can you show that it’s different than everything else out there. That’s the easiest. It’s as simple as that. Yeah how can you tell me that my product is different and then demonstrate that because if you told me it’s different and you don’t demonstrate it then I don’t believe you. Sure. But have you told me that it’s different. Like for example everyone on this podcast when we started you actually used a phrase that I normally use that people have been trained to sell backwards and you know what I will say things like you know Rick you probably have been trained to sell backwards and you’re losing sales because of it. So what I’m doing is I’m quitting a little curiosity by saying you’ve been trained to sell backwards and most of the world is which makes you go home. And then I put you into which we’ll get to intimate pain because we move from pain to pleasure. Next a very simple one is make it tangible is the brain prefers concrete steps over abstract. If you say for example I can help you get a ton of leads is one thing but if you say I’ve got a three point plan to help you get a helping increase your leads by 47 percent. That’s a completely different brain based way to say it as opposed to I can help you make a ton of cash that’s pretty simple.
[00:27:28] That makes sense surely. Sure. Yep. My question there Jim because you just mentioned we’re talking about the stats before talking about emotion and something that stats don’t sell but yet they can make it more tangible as what you’re talking about here.
[00:27:42] Correct. Gotcha stats can sell. But we don’t buy we don’t generally buy statistics and let me put it this way. We don’t change that what I said. We don’t buy logically we buy emotionally which everybody’s heard and sells and we buy our values. That’s why that if a political candidate appeals to a certain faction of the population and they can say a lot of analytical stuff about the economy or whatever. But if you emotionally appeal to that part of the population they’ll follow you analytic. I mean not analytically they’ll follow you emotionally because you’re quote unquote speaking their language.
[00:28:19] Got it. It makes sense.
[00:28:21] Yeah and that’s why people like Russell Bronson talk about customer avatars. Know your customer right. Yeah. No them emotionally. No one engages them. No what keeps them up at night because if you don’t know that stuff and you don’t know them well there’s no way in this world of attention deficit you’re ever going to get to them. Sure sure ok makes sense right. Yup couple of more of we’ll talk about them conversational conversational language and some covert language and how to actually get into their heads. Language is simple. You know my buddy we our friend Brandon Brin legitimate I know him right. I’ve been coaching Brandon for years and when I first met him he was just starting out and for a long time he was known as a ranking expert on YouTube. If you’d go to YouTube and you type in how to rank video. Brandon was normally the number one guy who came up and he would always position his ads as let me help you rank your videos. And I said Brandon you’re actually heading the wrong direction. People don’t care about ranking their videos.
[00:29:16] What do they care about it they care about being number one. It’s Qaiser. Go go one more step. They to be the best. OK. If they want to be at the top yeah go one more step.
[00:29:32] Money in the bank. They care about sales.
[00:29:34] Sure sure. And they equate that with with sales.
[00:29:38] Exactly. So he was positioning his ads as you know grow your rankings or increase your rankings and I’m like you’re focusing in the wrong place. Let’s actually focus on putting more money in your bank account as a result of ranking your videos and as sales increased. Why. Because he’s getting them the end result of what they want give people the end result. Guys let me segue here for a second. Rick cut me off.
[00:30:05] But I’ve I’ve worked with a lot of marketers and a lot of high end marketers et et cetera. And I see a lot of people that are even good marketers but when they get on the web and are they fall flat because they can’t sell.
[00:30:15] Yeah. You are you familiar with any of that. Oh yeah for sure. Yeah yeah.
[00:30:19] Yeah I see it all the time. And guys I’m telling every one of you please listen to me. I see people going on webinars and they spend the first 20 minutes of Mimi blah blah blah blah Me me me me me me me blah blah guys you’ve already lost me. If you can’t hook me in and get a fish hook in my mouth and the first one minute of that webinar my attention is going to wane. So what I’m telling you is get and if you’re doing webinars as a result of your app which a lot of us do get into your content and start laying hooks right away about what’s in it for them because believe it or not they don’t care about you. They’re not there for you. They’re there for what you can do for them. Make sense. Completely Yep. Oh my God these people are 25 minutes and still talking about themself and they did it 12 minutes of content and try to sell me something. Yeah right. And a lot of people do that. Guys get into it and make it about your prospect from your Facebook ad make it about them right away. And at the very least a fishhook like I did when he asked when Rick asked me to start. I said first let’s make it about them. I did that intentionally to get a fishhook in your mouth to get you to go all the way through this podcast with us.
[00:31:25] Yeah. So the takeaway is make it about them and make it about an end result not about a process. They don’t care about the process. Make it about what they’re going to get. OK that ties that one up right. Yes absolutely. Yep Lemoore is pain pain is ripped your brains our brains are constantly scanned totally in part of the brain is constantly scanning the environment or pain and loss the more pain you can put people in the quicker and faster they’re going to move. That’s why for example when you read the headline just never about the boyscout walking the old lady across the street. It’s always about the bus plunging off from the cliff right. Yeah. So as marketers guys you want to talk about what people are going to lose if they do not take action and do not work with you or buy your product or service or whatever. Last will move people significantly faster in their bread up to 70 percent faster than pleasure. You always want to put people in pain and then actually position yourself as the solution to get them out of pain. Makes sense. Absolutely yep. There’s something I read once and I’ll let me take one phrase out of it is what you want to be. Literally I told Brendan this last week he’s got a new campaign going on is launching due on your webinars and your marketing. You want to be your prospects salvation. You want to be the person that they believe can solve their problem and literally even on your webinars as watching a webinar recently like this webinar is pretty good.
[00:32:56] But what he hasn’t done yet as he has. And he did. He gave really good content. But what he hadn’t done yet is made himself the prospect’s salvation.
[00:33:06] Know. Absolutely. And I know my listeners are saying OK cool. How did you how did you do that.
[00:33:11] OK let me and by the way we’ve got about 15 20 minutes. Yeah. OK. All right. Now you might have heard this before guys but as you’re sitting here and you’re taking notes and you’re thinking about how to apply this I knew that you guys were thinking OK Jim I get all this but how exactly can I break it down. Which is what you just said Rick. Right. OK. What we what that’s called is and it’s also a hypnotic technique. What that’s called is entering the conversation that your prospect is already having in their own mind. Have you heard that before. Yeah absolutely. Yep.
[00:33:44] Now guys let me break it down simpler as a hypnotist one and I haven’t done hypnosis in many years but when somebody was in hypnosis and I could tell because their breathing slows down their face relaxes and I could tell they were in hypnosis. What I would say is I would say I wonder if you’ve noticed how relaxed you have become. I didn’t say you’re relaxed. I said I wonder if you’ve noticed. Yeah and that’s called a presupposition because guess what. If they haven’t noticed. Now as a result of me making that statement they do notice and if they haven’t noticed yet they will notice as a result of me actually making that statement. So the way that I do it is when I talk to people on webinars I will say things as you’re sitting there listening right now you’re probably thinking about ways you can apply these strategies to grow your business aren’t you. And guess what. Even that simple statement when I say is you’re sitting there or standing there and you’re listening right now. They are sitting and standing or listening right now. Yeah
[00:34:42] right. Yeah absolutely. So
[00:34:43] I’m telling them what they’re doing and I’m saying you’re probably even wondering how you can apply this. And they’re saying yep I’m already wondering. And then I say let me answer that for you and then I start answering it for them. And I said step number one is this. And you’re probably already wondering about step number one. Well let me take that word away and let me show you how to do it and I’m literally dialoguing with them in their mind as if I’m sitting across from them having a cup of coffee. That’s how to do that. That’s how to pull them in is entering the conversation they’re already having in their own mind. If they’ve got objections and I already know that I’m going to get this kind of objection all started very quickly with saying things like you know what you’re probably already thinking this might be too expensive for you or you may be thinking this might be too expensive for you and if that’s the case let me show you how anybody can afford this.
[00:35:30] And if I say because it’s a big objection that people say it’s too expensive. And if I say you’re probably already wondering how expensive this is. Boom I’m already in their head. Does that make sense.
[00:35:40] Absolutely. And I’m just trying to. Like I’m going to. I’m like nodding my head as they’re talking as they’re talking about this because I’m sure that that’s the effect that you’re trying to say that you’re trying to have. So yes I’m kind of like processing all this right now. Yes. If you makes total sense though.
[00:35:56] OK. Let me give you guys a bullet take away is right this down is when you can enter the conversation your prospect is already having in their mind they will follow you. Yeah whatever their concerns might be or their hopes or their wishes or their dreams. What most of us do is we present content externally here is this product go buy it.
[00:36:19] But what you want to do is you want to talk to them as if you’re talking to them one to one about problems or concerns or hopes your dreams are having. Because when you’re doing that listen to what Rick said he goes yep I’m processing this and my mind is going along every one of you right now are processing this and your mind mainly because a lot of you probably never heard it even though it’s not earth shattering but a lot of you have not heard this before. And this is actually making some little light bulbs golf in your mind doesn’t it. And even by me saying that you’re like yep Jim it’s doing that.
[00:36:47] I’m in your head. It makes sense. Yeah for sure. OK. Yeah. Super cool.
[00:36:54] So next one is so OK emotions remember pain always leverage pain over pleasure. Always put people in pain the more pain you can put people in. The quicker they will move next one is reactance reactance is like rattling the cage. Getting people emotionally charged and the more you can rattle the cage the more people are going to respond or they’re going to move. Another example of that Facebook ad that I saw huge dog lover. If you’re a dog lover you might have seen this out on Facebook. It said something along the lines of about South Korea and I’m having like places where they they eat dogs. But there is one place in South Korea and as I said 170 dogs are suffering. And then it had a picture of these dogs really really suffering. Now we see that on TV but we’ve become a nest of ties to it. But seeing the suffering condition are these dogs in the Waalo. That’s called emotional reactions. It got my response rate up and I read the entire ad. That makes sense. You have any questions about that.
[00:37:51] Yeah was there positivity to it because again my mind immediately goes to like you know Facebook wanting to keep the platform a positive experience so I totally get that from an emotional perspective I’m just wondering like was there a positive outcome with it or how you help and we can get a positive outcome.
[00:38:11] OK gotcha. The whole positioning and. Yeah. Thank you again for bringing that back. Let me point that out. You’ve got to obviously work within the positive experience they want people to have. But what I simply do is I’ll do something just to rattle the cage a little bit the pull of men to get their attention and then I’ll have them you know I’ll take them to a video over only pages or whatever and then you can do whatever you want once you’ve got gotten them off from Facebook you know and then I’ll use a lot of the stuff like reactants are paying or putting them in painter or whatever it might be. And they sent even put them in a mine. It’s called call a double bind. It’s either or I could say. Rick do you want to help me carry this bookcase in before lunch or after lunch which already presuppose their fear of helping.
[00:38:52] Exactly. It’s not a matter of what you’re going to help. Right. Right. Yeah.
[00:38:56] So I’ll put people in binds and these are very things that you really can’t see. But you know what you can actually start learning right now. Everybody listening you can start learning subconscious persuasion and influence or you can keep losing sales. It’s completely up to you. I put you in one camp or the other.
[00:39:13] Yeah. He’s going back to what you said Jim about the about the landing page. We do need to be careful there on the landing page as well because Facebook is checking that for policy. So I mean we can you can get away with a little bit more but you still need to be conscious that I just want to make sure everyone’s aware of that that we do talk about that on the show here quite a bit. We do need to be you know still need to be conscious of policy on on the landing page there.
[00:39:37] OK so let me add there Brandon has to keep me back in because I’m the consummate marketer and I don’t do it Regis. I do it culturally sir. And thank you for reinforcing that the people because I don’t want any by anybody’s accounts banned or any of that. Right. Right right. I think the key is to just start playing smaller and just kind of working this into your marketing as opposed to like I’m going to take the door off the hinges and see what I can do. Yeah I don’t think that’s a great approach. But you just take it in even things like getting attention and just something shocking or high contrast how you’re different or tangible. These things will start making a difference. OK. Let’s go to some language here really quickly. All right. And then this will help people also. By the way any questions about well what we’ve covered so far. No no this is great really. I got it as a hypnotist. We use language and we use actually what’s called hypnotic conversational language. And it can be anything from. I wonder if you’ve recognized how relaxed you have become now. For any of you and all of you listening you might think nothing of that phrase but what’s hidden behind it is I’m saying I wonder if you’re recognizing how power. Let me give a different example. I wonder if you guys are starting to realize just how powerful this information is. Now what I could say is this what most people say hey guys you think you can use this does this make sense.
[00:40:53] This is kind of powerful right. That’s what most people say stuff like that you think you can use. That’s right. Yeah. No I never say that what I’m doing in my presentation I’ll say you know what guys I’m wondering if you realized just how powerful this information is and what do for you. What have I suggested there that it’s powerful and that it can that the Internet can help them. Exactly. I don’t ask for someone’s opinion on it. Do you think you can use it. I say I wonder if you realize because because guess what. By the way that I ask the question if you haven’t realized it it’s called a presupposition. Now I’m actually prompting you to realize and to find it powerful. When I asked the question that way I’m getting you to agree that it’s powerful and I’m not telling you it’s powerful. I’m getting you to agree that it’s powerful. Yeah. You’re nodding your head. Yeah. It doesn’t make sense. Yeah absolutely. Yeah a lot of times I’ll say things. For example we are conditioned this is language as well. We are conditioned not to believe not to follow people are marketers. We tune it out. Sure it goes up exactly boom the shield goes up. So what I tell people is this I’ll say you know what as you’re going through this and as you’re listening and or or as you start using this kind of material you’re going to discover just how powerful that is this now. What I could have said is position a. This is powerful material.
[00:42:13] But what I also said is position B as you’re going to discover when I say as you’re going to discover you’re therefore now looking to discover it yourself as opposed to me telling you then when you discover it for yourself. Now you believe it. And I didn’t have to convince you of anything. Yeah. Does that make sense. Yeah it’s cool yeah. OK. Couple of more here and I’ll tell you where you guys can get a list of these patterns is I earlier said the fact that you’re on this podcast means that you want to grow your sales. Who can argue with that.
[00:42:42] Yeah exactly. I mean you can yeah you can’t you can’t you can’t say I’m not on this podcast.
[00:42:47] What are you talking about. Right. Right. And then why else would you be here if you didn’t want to grow your Facebook ad conversion right. I gave you truisms that I made you say yes to. So that’s an example of influential leading language. And I’ll tell you where you can get actually you can download a PTF and I’ve got 17 patterns that you can use in the ads. And they’re all very very safe. Leading conversation. Let me give you a couple of words here. And this is a really really powerful one. So let’s say for example that and again direct me here Rick is let’s say for example that your ad is about weight loss. You can’t make outrageous claims and all that kind of stuff and they are strict about that. Yeah but they will say things like you could lose 10 pounds or whatever something simple right.
[00:43:30] Are you asking is that allowed you to be really careful with that even if you could say if you said something like you know because of that you could say you can lose 10 pounds Facebook is our problem with that because they see that as a promise that they’re insinuating that this product is going to help you lose 10 pounds. So they’ll have a problem with it.
[00:43:51] So let’s go a different direction here. Every ad has something shiny some promise of some sort that it wants to deliver. Yes exactly. People are wanting to create their wanting to get something as a result of clicking on that ad right. And the advertiser the marketer will mention that outcome. Right. That you haven’t gotten yet. Right. But you can get it if you get this product right. OK. Here’s a simple way. This is the power of words and what I teach guys is how about if I change the add to let’s say your outcome wanting to be better can you keep a generic better conversions. So instead of saying my product here with my product you can get better conversions. What if I said something along the lines of imagine that you’ve already gotten better conversions by using what I teach. Yeah. Yeah. You notice the first way is positioning that I don’t have it yet but when I say imagine that you’ve already gotten the results that you want. I’ve already moved your mind into oh my gosh I’m thinking along the lines of how my life be different if I already had it. Now you’re already in the brain again.
[00:44:56] Yeah and the first way you said it is like again I’m always the I am never the authority the final authority on what Facebook policy is but I tend to play devil’s advocate on the first thing that you said. You know how to get better. What would you say better leads or better conversions. Facebook might read that as you’re insinuating that they’re not getting good conversions right now which would be a negative experience. But with your with the second part there where you’re leading them to that they already have it just that tweak of language there. I mean is is totally in line with what with what policy would be.
[00:45:34] OK. And notice also so it’s in line with policy but if I said imagine you’ve already had you already have it. Yeah I literally change your brain from thinking about getting it literally literally going left brain to right brain having your brain. Because when I put the word already imagine that you already have it. Yeah. You don’t start thinking well what if I did have it you start thinking with where I lead you. Well what if I already did have it. Now I can I can attribute that back to this product or service that I’m looking at. Yeah. Does that make sense. Yeah for sure. Yeah. So and thank you for that. And guys I apologize because actually Brandon does my Facebook ads for me. And what’s funny is this is he’ll take a red pen and start marking through things and go you know we’ve got to tone it down. We’ve got to do this. We’ve got to do that. Yeah but you know he can’t even tell you I’ve helped him significantly just increasing conversions on his webinars because you guys will use this stuff there. Yeah. And literally just when you play. I didn’t say that earlier but when you plant suggestions you can lead people to rephrase it as you’re going to discover when you learn the plant suggestions. You can lead people anywhere you want them to go.
[00:46:39] Yeah I love it. So I guys by the way Jimmy keeps talking about Brandon and Lucero said Brandon has been on the podcast for four. I’m going to have to go. I’ll let you know in the intro outro I’ll go back and figure out which episode he was on. So Brendan’s been on the podcast before. Grey episode he’s also speaking at my a live event here this weekend while I’m recording this in a few days. So anyway I’ll link that up in the show. As for the episode here today.
[00:47:04] Perfect. Yeah. So I know we’re about out of time. Any questions about anything we’ve covered.
[00:47:10] No this is this is really cool stuff. I’m taking like I have like two pages of notes here as we’re going through. And I know you also mentioned that you’ve got a resource for people too.
[00:47:20] As far as that you know the hypnotic conversational language examples that they can that they can check out yeah they’re written out for you go to sales psychology Academy dotcom sales psychology Academy dot com and of course we’ll be below in the links and everything cell psychology Academy dot com slash persuasion. Eshoo ASIO and it’s just it’s just a squeeze page you’ll be able to actually download a PDA. I’ve got 17 language patterns in there. And Rick I want you please to go download all sort of look at them. Jobs going to. Yeah. To make sure but it’s all pretty banal stuff but it’s all stuff that leads people and gets into their head. But there are what I call threads are a way to act. There are ways to actually say things and to lead people but they don’t know they’re being led. There’s no promises being made. Now what you do is you take the pattern and you fill in the blanks. And one of the patterns was is the fact that blank means blank. The fact that you’re reading this that means that you want to actually grow your business. That is a language pattern and you’ve got 17 patterns there. You can work them into your copy. So go download that you’re going to want to actually download that and start playing with that. Secondly I’ve got a group on Facebook. HP S.P. group dot com. Its high performance sales professional group but it’s all persuasion and influence stuff. HP Espey group dot com.
[00:48:36] Ok awesome also. And you. You have a program too. You have a program that teaches all this stuff as well.
[00:48:42] Well I’m creating right now OK a psychology Academy were all marketers your guys. Why. Why. Why try to hide anything. So when you go over to the College Academy dot com slash persuasion then you can download that. And if you want you can go join my membership site sell psychology Academy and there’s literally hundreds of videos that are very short that show you how to get into people’s heads. But I’m also going to be creating Brandon told me to do it. I didn’t listen but now I am because from the creator Facebook advertising and marketing product which will be out early next year and you’re going to miss out on that and keep losing sales unless you get on my list. So I can tell you about it a little later.
[00:49:19] Everything you’re talking about in play right now is that I am communicating what I do want to do better right. They
[00:49:24] do want to increase their sales right.
[00:49:26] Absolutely. And they want to go when they want to get on my list.
[00:49:29] Yeah I want to just kind of caveat this Jim because I think some people can construe some of this stuff as sort of like we’re trying to take advantage of people and all this other stuff and I look at it more as so of. Look this is the way the brain actually works. And so we are you know the whole you know you mentioned that in the very beginning the whole world of entropy and this is think I’ve heard some elements of entropy and what we’re talking about here today but just from a psychological perspective how to take advantage of how the brain works and speaking to people and how we’re getting their attention and how were able to leverage these types of things that we’re learning here to get people to take action because we’re all in a business we’re all in business to help people right we want to improve people’s lives and help them whether living live a better life or have a better business or whatever whatever it might be. And you know we’re just all leveraging these things that we’re talking about here today in a more sort of specified way if you will to be able to do that. So it is kind of want to caveat that and second to that.
[00:50:34] So I tell people this when I used to teach a full day course I would have people sign in I couldn’t force it but I’d have them sign an agreement saying what they learned they would use ethically my belief system is I believe in karma and if I take money out of your pocket for my gain or my benefit or whatever without serving that money is going to come right back out of my pocket. The way that I tell people to use and especially in sales and marketing is to shorten your cell cycle to weed out people who do not belong in your finals and in your database. And because all of us sale every one of you right. Like for example right now you’re on a cell phone or you’re on a computer or something that you bought from somebody. Right now everything is sales so if you’re going to sell sell in the most effective and efficient way to do it which is to the brain and not the old way which is throwing darts which literally 95 percent or more people still do so use it ethically because if you don’t it’ll come right back out of your pocket. Yeah but use it to shorten your selling cycles to weed out people that don’t belong in your flannels and to help more people. Yeah. So we’re on the same page. Thank you for bringing that to the forefront. Yes I could share that as well.
[00:51:38] Absolutely and I think that’s a great plan. It’s a great way to tie up this conversation. I mean we’ve covered a lot of different stuff here gone really deep on stuff people have an our resources they can go to check out learn more about this. So Jim thank you so much man for coming on here. This is a really really interesting conversation. I’m going to go download this stuff you and I have been talking about for me doing more of this stuff so I’m excited about it. So thank you again for coming on here and sharing your expertise with the AOP audience.
[00:52:04] Thank you so much you guys take it out use it and grow yourselves and make it a great year. Thanks so much Rick. I’ll talk to you later OK.
[00:52:10] All right. Hope you got a lot out of this one Jim today. I told you at the very beginning of this episode that we were going to go deep here today so you may want to listen to this episode one or two more times here to really get let the concepts dig in because we covered a lot of different stuff that may take a couple times to really sink in for you. I know that I took a bunch of notes during the interview when I interviewed Jim and I’ve reviewed them a few times and I’ve also checked out his program. So really good stuff here from Jim thank you again to him for coming on. Now before we wrap up today I want to say you know about an opportunity to get more hands on help with business building mentorship and coaching from me. This is something that people have been asking me about for a long time now and I’ve created a new 12 month group coaching program which is called the accelerator and this is to help you more quickly take your business to the next level and I’ve based it on the framework around three key elements high level coaching community and accountability. And I started working with online entrepreneurs because basically I’m living proof that when you surround yourself with bright driven like minded people and you get coaching along with that you create opportunity for big time growth. That’s what has allowed me to grow my business so quickly over the last four years and I want the same thing for you.
[00:53:28] So so when you enroll in the accelerator program you’re getting at a 12 month personalized game plan for achieving whatever your goals are for you and your business. You’re going to get monthly group coaching training and hot seat strategy calls. We do two calls per month. You get a coach as part of the program. You get to live private retreats here in San Diego a VIP experience and a bonus day at one of my FBA live events here in San Diego. You’re going to get personalized final critiques. Facebook ad critiques copy reviews launch strategy reviews on a monthly basis a private Facebook group to get daily help support and community and a whole lot more. Really excited about this program. If you think that coaching support and accountability is something that could help you fast track the success of your business. I would invite you to check out my new accelerator program and book a strategy call with me which you can do over at Rick Mulready dot com forward slash accelerator. Again it’s Rick Mulready dot com for its Lasch accelerator. Thank you so much my friends for hanging out means they really appreciate you taking the time to do this.
[00:54:40] I’ve got another awesome episode coming your way coming up in Episode number one hundred and seventy one episode as the next 174. So until then my friends keep testing your pay traffic to find out what works for you and your business and then do more of what’s working. I’ll see you in the next episode.