Today is part two, of my interview with Diana Tower.
If you don’t remember who Diana Tower is, she’s a membership community strategist. She specializes in teaching you, or your community manager, how to keep members engaged, how to reduce churn, and how to foster a community that people love being a part of.
We’re continuing our talk about doing all of these things, which ultimately is going to increase retention. We’re talking all about that here today in part two, with Diana Tower.
Now, if you have not yet heard part one from last week, I highly recommend that you stop right now. Listen to part one first, because today will make a whole lot more sense if you listen to part one, beforehand. It would be kind of weird if you just pick up in the middle of the conversation here in part two.
Diana is an expert in membership community management. She was also the former community manager for Ramit Sethi, author of I Will Teach You to Be Rich, and founder of GrowthLab.com, before creating a business for herself, helping people like you and me around the world create better memberships, and create better experiences for people.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- Why you need to track your community’s engagement and activity
- Experimenting and interpreting results from your tracking data
- How to measure the success of your community management
- Is managing your membership community a full-time job?
- Knowing when and what to delegate as a community manager
- What happens when you hire someone to manage your community
- How much does it cost to hire a good community manager?
- What platforms are best for hosting a membership community
Links & Resources:
- Part I of my interview with Diana
- Mighty Networks
- DM me on Instagram
- Visit my YouTube channel
- The Art of Online Business clips
- The Art of Online Business website
- The Art of Online Business Podcast website
- Check out my Accelerator coaching program
Diana Tower’s Links:
- Diana’s website
- Diana’s blog
- Follow Diana on Twitter
- Diana’s Instagram
- Diana's Freebie for Podcast Listeners Get her 2 free ultimate guides on building and engaging communities
- Learn more about Diana's Membership Retention Kit!**
- Learn more about Membership Community Audit
**This is an affiliate link so if you purchase, I get a small commission. Thanks so much, in advance!
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You need to have regular conversations. You need to have some type of weekly or biweekly check-ins where you can openly communicate. If you’re the community manager and you feel like you aren’t able to do certain things that would really benefit the community, you need to feel confident enough to actually say that to the host, and the host vice versa being open to getting that.
Welcome back, my friends. This is going to be part two, of my interview with Diana Tower, talking all about how to reduce churn and keep members engaged in your membership, which ultimately is going to increase retention, which is what we’re trying to do through adding amazing value by building an amazing community. We’re talking all about that here today in part two, with Diana Tower.
Now, if you have not yet heard part one from last week, I highly recommend that you stop right now. Listen to part one first, because today will make a whole lot more sense if you listen to part one, first. It would be kind of weird if you just pick up in the middle of the conversation here today, in part two.
Now, just a quick reminder, if you don’t remember who Diana Tower is, she’s a membership community strategist. She specializes in teaching you or your community manager how to keep members engaged, how to reduce churn, and essentially foster a community where people just love being a part of it.
That’s what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to create that in our membership. Well, Diana is an expert in exactly helping you do that. She was also the former community manager for Ramit Sethi, before creating a business for herself, helping people like me and like you around the world create better memberships, create better experiences for people.
Today is part two, with Diana. Now, before we go re-hang out with her, if you’re an established online course creator, maybe you’ve got a membership, or you’re an online coach, and you’re looking to increase your profit, have a bigger impact in your business all the while with less, then I want to invite you to apply to our Accelerator coaching program. By established, you’re already doing at least 100K a year in your online business, and you’re looking to scale, you’re looking to have a bigger impact. You’re looking to increase your revenue, but you’re also looking to increase profit. That’s what it’s all about. All the while with less hustle, working fewer hours.
That’s exactly what we help our Accelerator coaching members do every single day. If you’re interested in learning more and applying—it’s application only—go to RickMulready.com/Accelerator.
Alright, my friends, without further ado, let’s go hang back out with Diana Tower.
So, you said that you’re not a numbers person, but so many people are. Of course, I talk about that as well, like churn rates and all that stuff. So, everything that you’re talking about can increase retention, because people are feeling heard. They’re feeling safe. They get to chat with their other like-minded peers, et cetera, et cetera.
So, I want to get your thoughts on the whole concept of churn, and everything that you’re talking about here today, and how that affects churn and everything else.
Yeah. So what I would say is like, so like I’m definitely not a numbers person, but like I am secretly I guess, like underneath it, because obviously that’s what people care about. They care about the bottom line. How is this going to increase retention, reduce turn, like that’s essentially as a community manager, if you were in that role, you have to prove that what you’re doing is worth paying for.
And so having the numbers that you, that you can track can make that a little bit easier. so I mean, for example, like with Facebook, the easiest thing that you can do is set up a spreadsheet and track things, for example, like comments, reactions, number of posts that don’t include you or your team, right?
So number of member posts, and then you also something that I actually learned from digital marketer. So they have a, the activities. And so, of course the actual calculation is going completely blank from my mind. But what you do is you take those numbers and you can create a formula in your spreadsheet, and it will tell you, the activity score that you have.
And it’s, I believe it’s like one to five. And so by doing that, if you’re tracking on a monthly basis, imagine you, plug in your numbers for month one, and you’ve got, say a three, and then you plug in months, You know, the next month it’s three next month. It’s 3.5. It’s four, suddenly it’s two WTF.
What happens? Right. So I feel like in terms of numbers, I would say. Obviously tracking them is important because you have a baseline, you can see like, okay, this is what’s going on. And also you’re tracking the activity. That’s important. You want your members posting, you want them commenting and you want them reacting.
Right. You can’t obviously track if they’re just scrolling and they’re reading and they feel amazing. Like you can’t track that. but you can track those numbers. And then in terms of like what you do as well, obviously like calculating turn, seeing like how many people are leaving each month. What I would do then is you’re going to have to do a little bit of like extrapolation to see, okay.
Is there a trend, like, as your activity score goes up is turn going down. and then also the other thing you have to keep in mind is what else is the company doing? Because for example, imagine you completely revamped your onboarding emails and then suddenly turn those down. You’re setting maybe better expectations, right.
Or maybe you revamped your sales page and then turn goes up. Right. So I think that is actually a really good point that I’m now realizing right here. This is actually really good. So you’ve got this baseline and you’re keeping track of what other departments of your or other areas of your business are doing.
So you can see what’s happening in terms of your, sort of your heartbeat of your community. So if you’ve got your activity score is chugging along at say a four and it suddenly spikes. You can say, whoa, what did we do in this last month? Was there anything different in within the community, obviously, but then also different areas to be, do a different promotion.
Is this like a different type of member, right? So maybe you do like an Instagram promotion versus say, like a webinar. Ooh, these types of members tend to stay longer. And vice versa. So I feel like it’s more not, I don’t want to say it’s a stretch, but it’s like, you’ve got this baseline of numbers to help you have some hypothesis, you know, have some room to really explore.
I, I mean, as I’m listening to you, I don’t think it’s a stretch. I think that’s, that’s really, I actually never even thought of it like that. And it’s
Generally right now, well, this, this is the thing. So I teach like, I’ve got like all your KPIs. I talk about how, but I was very like until literally this moment, very much in the bubble of community, but I never stopped until right now to think having those numbers can help.
Sort of diagnose what the other areas of your business are doing. So if you change your sales page, let’s see what the, you know, the activity score does over the next three months. Or if we do a different promotion what’s happening, like, does that impact it? so yeah, I love that. I’m just going to have to bake that in.
Yeah, absolutely. Should do that. and you mentioned something like is small, but yet I think it’s really big for people to understand, as you said, if I make a change on just as an example, the sales page or my onboarding, I’m going to see what it does over the next three months or so this is not an immediate, like, oh, I make a change.
The onboarding being me being like, oh, like, you know, I dropped my churn rate by 2% or something like that. It takes time for things to happen.
The same thing with community. I mean, you’re experimenting with. It is time. You need, you need the time to create the content, to put it out there, people to process it, to actually react to it and see what they do and it’s over time.
And so you can see like, okay, and this is actually the other thing too, is that you create like a plan, you say, okay, I’m going to take this approach with content for this period of time. And we’re going to see what it does to the numbers. And then you stop that test. You look at the numbers and then you can pivot or you can change, or you can completely scrap that idea and try something different.
It’s it’s a lot it’s yeah. It’s, it’s experimentation with the willingness to have it not work. I think that makes people a little bit uncomfortable sometimes.
Yeah. And it’s so it’s so important to understand that, right. That it does take some time. I have two more quick, cause like we can talk about this
I’m fascinated by this, this conversation. So, two more questions. The first question who quote unquote, should have a community manager. And when do you see most, you know, when does he this most happening that the CEO, the, you know, the membership creator themselves is actually doing the management of the.
So there’s kind of a life cycle that I’ve noticed when, when working with clients. So, and on that, I sometimes will come in at different stages, but if we focus on the, the CEO or the membership owner, we focus on them. And usually in the beginning, they’re doing everything. They’re wearing all the hats.
They’re, you know, they’re the community manager, they’re the marketer, they’re the coach, they’re everything. but then it gets to a point where you start delegating some things to a VA. And normally if it’s community related, it will be back in things. So there’s actually four different types of, tasks that a community manager can do, that like there’s back and there’s forward facing there’s four different types.
But when you’re first starting with a VA, you’re going to delegate things that are maybe less risky and less forward facing. So it’s like scheduling posts, organizing content, this sort of thing, collecting testimonials things that your members don’t know. Right. So then you have this VA and either they’re like, they have the potential, like I always say, it’s like, they’re unicorn, right?
Like, they’re this person that’s just got the personality. They can write hugely important. People need to be very expressive in their writing as community managers. And so you kind of have like, the host has this like, urge to be like, okay, I want to train you so that you can. Take this and run with this and wear that hat, or you’ll notice that that person does not have the, the skills and sort of this, the personality potentially even to be the, the forward facing community manager.
So usually what they’ll do is they will try to hire a community manager directly. and at that stage, usually, like, I would say, like, we’re talking established membership, you’re making consistent income. like, this is not usually what you do right out, straight out of the gate, like a new membership. I don’t recommend it just because like, you’re paying to train somebody you’re paying, you’re paying them money. And it makes sense to kind of, I encourage people to figure out the systems themselves first, like get all of your foundations in place, get all of the strategy going for your community and then delegate it. That’s like, ideal situation. and then usually what will happen. And like a perfect world. That would be the transition, right.
It would just be like, okay, now you have a community manager, you delegate to them. Perfect. but many times I’ve had clients that are very successful and they just come and they say, I need a community manager. Like I don’t have, like, they’ve just got like a team of moderators or VAs. And they’re like, hire somebody.
Like I don’t even, but they don’t even like, they’re very hands-off they don’t want to know anything about it. They’re just like find someone, train them, do the thing. and I would say me personally, if I were a business owner and I would choose between the two options, I personally would go with the gradual, just because you will understand their role and you will respect their role much more than if you just hire someone and delegate and you think, oh yeah, you’re just scrolling Facebook.
You’re just engaging. You’re a cheerleader. Not what a community manager is like community manager, like that role in and of itself. Like, I have so much respect for community managers because it is a lot of work that people, most of the work people don’t see. Oh, and little side note, not social media manager.
So this whole idea of I’m going to hire one person to manage your Instagram and your Facebook page and all this. No, like, no, sorry. Like really?
So this brings up so many more questions, so I’ll keep them, I’ll keep them quick. how do we measure? And obviously this is going to be different from business to business, but how do we generally measure their success or not?
How do we know if they’re being successful?
Started out with this question.
Yeah, that’s a good one. so what I would say is first thing, easiest answer is you will know. There will be like situations where either they’re making more work for other people, you don’t feel like you can trust them.
You’re checking in on them. They’re not really owning the role. Like if they’re not taking work off of your plate, that’s a red flag. So if you’re having to kind of check in that sort of thing, that would be to me needing some type of conversation, potentially training, that sort of thing. in terms of like success, what I would say is that you just, you want to, first of all, you need to set what the evaluation is going to be on.
So for example, it might involve some of the KPIs by also sometimes do, I don’t think it should be 100% because it’s not fair. Cause if somebody changes the sales page or they don’t let you change the onboarding emails, I I’ve had situations where, you know, community managers working for clients have, you know, said, Hey, we need to change the onboarding emails, but.
And that directly makes their job harder because they have to work harder to get people to understand it’s not one-on-one coaching it’s group, that kind of thing. so I think definitely having the numbers, like if you’re boosting number, they think that can work. but also I would just, I would create some, criteria for evaluation. So I mean, for myself, I’m just kinda thinking off the top of my head. Like I would say, you know, generally, are you like, are you proactively adding more roles to your, to your, or sorry, tasks to your roles? Are you making less work for other people? what is it like working with you? What are people saying like about like, what is it like working with you?
Are you a pleasure to work with? Do you make things easier for other people? again, it’s, it’s a couple of things. So what are the members think about. What does, what does the team think about you and what do you as the CEO think about you? So like when, when for example, imagine you’re the CEO and I’m the community manager.
When you think of me, are you like, or if you get an email from me, are you like Diana? You know, like dropping your shoulders, like, oh God, what does she want? Now it’s another question. Or is it like, cool? Like, what does, what’s up from Diana? Do you like how, even just like that visceral feeling. but I think that those three areas you need to have assessments for all three it’s, one of the members think and how you can, you know, choosing a way to sort of evaluate that other team members.
Cause like, if you’re making more work for other team members, not it’s a no-go, but then also you do you trust them? Do you feel confident? Do you feel comfortable working with them? and that’s actually a really good point though, as well is I think that there, you need to have regular conversations.
You need to have some type of like weekly or biweekly check-ins so that where you can openly communicate. So like if you’re the community manager and you feel like you aren’t able to do certain things that would really benefit the community, you need to feel confident enough to actually say that to the host and the host vice-a-versa needs to be able to say, Hey, your emails are really wordy and waste.
A lot of my time, I would really like to find a new structure for that being open to, you know, getting that feedback and just, you know, I think that it’s probably one of the number one reasons why amazing community managers leave a role is that they don’t have that open, I guess, communication to say when something isn’t working and then they leave when they didn’t necessarily have to.
That’s fine. It’s fascinating. I seriously like thinking through all that do do this is going to sound like a stupid question, but do community managers email or are they just within the community? This is the
Other thing. Okay. Here’s the thing, right? That’s one of my, my free opt-ins is what is a community manager and what are all the tasks they can do.
So that is on my website. That’s like one of my main, what do you call it? My main free opt-in because like, most people don’t even know a, what is a community manager? They think it’s a social media manager when it’s not, and to what are all the tasks they can possibly do. Right. Cause I talked about those four different types right.
For facing backend. But the, the thing is like with email, it depends because some community managers will do a weekly Roundup email focused on the content of the community. Right. So they’re pulling in like, Hey, Rebecca talked about this. And I think that the community manager should be responsible for that because they’re in it.
And they can write the email in a way that are going to, that’s going to trigger the emotions. Right. But then it goes too far, sometimes when suddenly your community manager is sending out the weekly content email for the entire business or suddenly, right. So it needs to be within that wheelhouse of community.
I definitely the Roundup emails. Yes. I think that should be a responsibility of the committee manager to like draft them up, pass them onto like the right department or send them out themselves depending on your team size. but there’s, that actually probably would be the number one reason why a community manager will leave is because they get pulled in way too many directions.
Suddenly they’re hosting webinars, suddenly they’re coaching suddenly they’re, you know, content creators suddenly they’re, you know, doing product research, all the things. And it’s like, you know, I talk about them being unicorns. Like there are some people that are just amazing at what they do, but if you get them to do everything, they don’t actually have the time to do the thing they were hired to do, which is managed and engage the committee.
And that leads me to, I promise two more, three more quick questions. Is this a full-time job or a part-time job?
This is eventually full-time job. Like I was for like maybe 30 hours. I would say 30, 40, in the beginning ease into it and not start full-time. I’ve had clients that will hire a full-time.
They needed it. I need someone that that’s in there, but in the ideal situation, I would do what I talked about. You you’re wearing all the hats, you hire a VA, you start delegating that, and then you hire someone, maybe it’s 10 hours a week and you start, what, what I talk about too, is this buffet, right. Of tasks.
You give them like the 10 hours originally, like these tasks, and then it’s their responsibility to start pulling more onto their plate and more off of. Right because then they know, oh, this is something I definitely could do. Or Ooh, like that’s something maybe that it’s not their wheelhouse and they don’t feel comfortable doing it.
So you want to really make it so that they can, they can sort of craft their role and really expand based on their strengths. but I would say if you’re hiring someone, generally speaking 10 hours a week is it’s like a drop in the bucket because thinking, think about 10 hours a week, that’s two hours Monday to Friday and think about Joe.
Okay. So just scanning the community, just to see if like shit hasn’t hit the fan. Okay. Just that is like 30 minutes in the morning, 30 minutes in the afternoon that doesn’t include anything else. That’s not like collecting testimonials, facilitating like engagement between members, writing content, you know, creating that Roundup email, the list goes on and on.
Right. So you definitely can eat up those hours very quick.
And how much could somebody expect to pay?
So this is a good question. This question was coming. I knew it was coming. So I would say so when I, so in the past I used to, I used to do like a full on like hiring process and hire people like community managers for other, business owners.
And what we would do is we would start off with, 20, 20 bucks an hour, 20 us dollars an hour was the starting. And obviously there was always room to increase and to grow. I would say it really depends. Like it, it can go anywhere like with community management. I think I’ve heard of people going anywhere up to maybe even like 40 an hour.
It would have to be really amazing. But I think, but this is the thing, and this is what’s awesome. Like if you are a community manager, you, you want to get to the point where you’re indispensable. Like this could not run without. Yeah. And then, but then on the flip side, that terrifies business owners, because they don’t want to be in that position.
They don’t want to be in the position where something doesn’t work without one single person. Right. Exactly. That’s the other thing too. That’s a whole other can of worms. I feel like talking about that, like, okay.
I’ll I’ll, I’ll ask the final question that I kind of teased in the very beginning Facebook group, another platform.
What do you, what do you recommend to, how is our membership community.
Let’s see. So different situations, different recommendations. so number one, if it’s new Facebook. Okay. If you’re if You’re trying to still figure out proof of concept, you don’t know if it’s working or not just go with Facebook.
It’s easy. It’s there it works. Okay. and it’s also much easier in terms of getting engagement in the beginning because their algorithm is working to help you. Right. It’s sticky. It’s there, it’s in their life, that kind of thing. but then there’s the other argument. So like we said, like there was the, what was it?
Instagram, WhatsApp, and Facebook were down for how many hours. Yeah. And people didn’t know what to do with themselves. And so you’re, you’re building your community on borrowed land. Like this is not your space. If something doesn’t work, you can’t fix it. You’re not reaching out to your it department. or even like directly with a company.
Like, so if you’re using a different platform, Other than Facebook, you know, there’s a support team or there’s customer service that actually you can email and respond and talk to you. Facebook is like this best that there’s no, like, I don’t even think they have customer support. I don’t know. So some people do get really concerned with that also in terms of, you know, keeping things focused and quiet and not having ads and other groups and distractions, I think that’s really important to other people as well.
And I think that right now, there are a lot more options in terms of doing different platforms. So like mighty networks is something that I’ve worked with with clients a lot. a lot of people really do like it it’s, it’s probably the closest to Facebook in terms of visual, like it being visually appealing.
But some people hate it. They think it’s clunky. They, the, the number one issue with not doing Facebook is that people have to think to go there. You have to work. A lot harder to get people to go. So it’s, it’s not in their life. It’s something separate. It’s like, oh yeah, I need to go into the community and use that.
So I think that’s like the biggest argument about not using Facebook. but ultimately I think it’s kind of. It’s a personal decision, like for you and your business, if you value, like having your own space and not having it on somebody else’s property, then like build it on a different platform. Just know the reality that it’s going to be harder to engage.
Because you have to, you’ll have to be using email probably too, or some types of texts or something like this to bring people back in. so just knowing that reality, it’s definitely possible. A lot of people are doing it. I think there’s more options now to like circle. I’ve not used it, but it looks just like Facebook, but it’s not Facebook.
So there there’s definitely options. but on the flip side, a lot of people are using. Like a lot of big companies are using Facebook. Why? Because it’s easy, it’s free and people are there. And so I think that there was, there’s been a fluctuation, like people like we’re going off Facebook and, you know, people will kind of go away and then they come back.
And so I would say, I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer. I think it just mostly depends on a, you as a company and a business owner. If you hate Facebook, you’re not going to want to go in there and manage that. Right.
It’s been an interesting discussion, especially lately where people are sort of, like you just mentioned Diana, just like leaving social media more so like Instagram and Facebook, for example.
And like, just because of. Their mental health. And so it’s like, yeah. And so, so we use TEDx pro.io in our business and they have what they call a social wall, which does look a lot like a Facebook group. We’re not, we’re not housing or communities in there right now, but it’s something I’m considering because of, you know, people again, there’s pros and cons, like you just mentioned, like Facebook is easy.
People are there, it’s part of their daily. They can just pop in there and, you know, whatever. but then there’s the, like the, you know, the quote unquote ownership of the community, if you will, and then. Do people enjoy going into, you know what I mean? It’s, it’s, it’s a lot like that’s a whole other topic in and
Yeah. Platform choice. I think that that’s a really big there it’s I wish that there was just like one answer. I could say 100%, like do this and like blanket statement. but it does really depend so much on your business. I think a lot with values. but then also your members, like if your members like, like aren’t on social media, you’re not going to want to have them on Facebook.
So I will say that in, in some cases, a lot of people will complain and say they don’t want to be on Facebook. But they’re there and they come to the group and they engage. And like I’ve had some situations where people will they’ll switch to a different platform and then it’s incredibly quiet and then they end up switching back to Facebook.
So it’s, it’s one of those things. And I think, I think the main thing to keep in mind, no matter what you do, no matter what platform you choose, you will not be able to make everyone happy. You might lose some members and that’s okay. You just focus on, well, these are our ideal members and these are the people that we really want to bring in.
And if this doesn’t work for you, so if it’s a platform change, if it’s you’re taking away coaching or you’re switching something up, this is what we’re doing moving forward. And if that doesn’t work for you, that’s totally fine. And they’ll leave and it’s totally okay. Yeah.
I know, seriously. I just like, all right. I think this is going to be a two-parter. I certainly seriously, because I think that there’s so like, I don’t want to overwhelm people in one fellow because there’s so much in here.
This has happened before, when I spoke with what was that with James Schramko from Superfast business.
We did too. And then I think I did three with what was I when I came back? Cause we were like, we got to talk about more stuff, but I think this is the thing too, that I, I feel like with money management, it’s like, this string, you think it’s so simple, manage your community and you start pulling that thread out and you’re like, oh wait, onboarding and emails And boundaries and emotion.
But it suddenly it can feel, it can feel overwhelming. but yeah, that’s why I tried it. Bring it into a space where it’s like, actually it’s just six things, six keys, and you, you nail those keys and then you, just
Humanized it. And the humanization, if that’s a word, it affects the numbers. Right? Like, if our retention isn’t good, if we don’t have a membership anymore.
Right. So, so good. I know a lot of my listeners are going to want to reach out to you. Now, they’re going to want your, your PDF download. We’ll link everything up in the show notes, but what are, or what is, or what are the best places that people can connect with you?
Well, the, I would say the best place to connect is my website.
Now just take it with a grain of salt. I’m doing a rebrand. It has not done yet. So this, I built myself be gentle. So it’s just by name, Dinah Tower.com. And so on the homepage at the bottom, there is the opt-in to grab that what is a community manager? And there’s actually 13 questions that you can ask someone if you’re interviewing them, like to actually figure out, like, is this a good fit?
If you want to snap that up, go grab it there. I’m also on Instagram a little bit. I I just kind of mess around like bagels with lots of seasonings and stuff like, that. but it’s underscore a Diana Tower on, on Instagram. I’m also on Facebook. but I don’t really use the page that much. I’m not, I have not like I’m very much like serving people.
I have not gotten into the whole, you know, Putting myself out there that’s what’s happening this year. but I would say the best place is just sign up for email and shoot message. yeah. That’s probably the best way to get in touch and purchase.
Your prerecorded video. That’s the thing.
If you sign up and get the “What is a community manager?” opt-in, or you sign up to get the emails, you will be part of the people that will get first dibs on that pre-recorded program.
I am not just telling you this, as soon as we’re done, I’m going to go download it. I want you to send me that link to purchase it because I want to buy it for my team.
It’s the first program that people will buy and not take. They’ll just delegate it to their team.
Exactly. Cool. I’ll link everything up on the show notes and how to connect with Diana. You can see that she is a wealth of knowledge. She’s an expert in this stuff.
Diana, thank you so much for taking this time to come chat with us, twice. I super appreciate it.
Thank you so much for having me, Rick. It was awesome.
Hey, thank you so much for listening to the show, as always. I think you’re going to be hearing a lot more from Diana here on the podcasts.
So, to not miss any episodes I’ve got coming out, if you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, please make sure you hit that subscribe button for the show. Also, I’d be forever indebted if you left a quick rating and review for the show there on Apple Podcastss.
If you’re listening to the show on Stitcher or Spotify, click that subscribe button, click that follow button for the show, so you don’t miss any episodes I’ve got coming your way. I’ve got awesome episodes coming out in 2022.
So again, thank you, as always, for tuning in today. Super appreciate you.
Until next time, my friend, be well, and I’ll talk to you soon.