Standing Out from the Crowd Through Storytelling, with Jude Charles (Part I) - Rick Mulready

rick mulready

Standing Out from the Crowd Through Storytelling, with Jude Charles (Part I)

May 25, 2022

Do you ever feel like your business gets lost in the crowd? 

Chances are your business niche is a very crowded one. The online space is getting pretty dense these days. So what are some things that we can do to stand out from all the noise and distinguish ourselves and our business from everyone else out there? 

In today’s episode of The Art Of Online Business, I sat down with Jude Charles to talk about how to help your business stand out with storytelling. He shares tips for pulling stories from your life that are relevant to your promotions or launches to catch your customers’ or clients’ attention and drive those sales. 

For over 15 years, Jude Charles has been producing documentaries for entrepreneurs. He has produced stories for Google, Steve Harvey, and dozens of visionary CEOs.

Jude is the author of Dramatic Demonstration. This book is a roadmap that teaches you how to dig deep to find compelling stories that no one else knows, and then leverage those stories to grow your business. Jude’s mission is to lead and empower entrepreneurs to have relentless, unwavering courage.

It’s all about catching the moments in your everyday life and leveraging them to drive home a point in order to separate yourself from the crowd. My hope is that with this episode, you’re able to take this concept and apply it to your own business for continued growth.  

Stay tuned for part 2 next week to hear more about how to do this in your business.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • What a story is and how to use it
  • How to make your stories relevant to what you have going on
  • Tips for organizing your stories
  • Ways you can use stories to drive home your points
  • How stories help build the “know, like, and trust” factor

Links & Resources:

*Disclosure: I only recommend products I use and love and all opinions expressed here are my own. This post may contain affiliate links that at no additional cost to you, I may earn a small commission.

Jude Charles’ Links: 

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[00:00:00] Speaker1

Hey, my friends, if you are looking for a faster, a better way to grow and scale your online business, you very likely do not need another course or to be reading more books about how to grow your business. What you need instead is a personalized, cohesive growth strategy for your business, along with one on one coaching and group coaching, support and accountability to help you every step of the way. Well, that’s exactly what my accelerator coaching program delivers for you. Accelerator is an intimate 12 month rolling open enrollment, so it’s ongoing open enrollment, personalized coaching program and mastermind experience for established online course creators and coaches who want to take the guesswork out of optimizing and grow towards a profitable seven figure plus business without more anxiety, without more stress and hours spent in front of the computer, accelerator is about thinking differently and bigger about your business, about your team, your funnels, your ads, your vision, etc., so that you can create more profit, more impact with less hustle. So accelerators application only. And again, this is rolling ongoing open enrollment. So if you want to learn more and apply, just go to Rick Mul forward slash accelerator. Hey my friend, welcome to the Art of Online Business Podcast. My name is Rick Mullaney and I’m an online business coach. I’m an ads expert, and most importantly, I’m a dad. And this show is where we help established online course creators and coaches create more profit, more impact with less hustle. All right, let’s get into it. Chances are the niche that you’re in, the niche that you’re in in your business is a very crowded one. 

[00:02:11] Speaker1

I’m in a very crowded niche, right? So whether you’re a course creator or you are a maybe have a membership or you’re a coach, you’re a teacher, entrepreneur, it’s a crowded space. So what are some of the things that we can do to stand out from all the noise, right? To be able to distinguish ourselves from everybody else out there. Now, granted, just the fact that you are yourself separates you. But what are some other things that we can do in our business to be able to really pull ourselves away from all the noise and stand out to be able to attract the people that we truly want to be helping with our business? Well, one of the best ways that we can be doing that is through storytelling. And this is something that I don’t and I’d talk more about it in this interview here today. I don’t consider myself a great storyteller, but as as my guest here today, Jude Charles, Jude kind of like says, well, you are a good storyteller. And we sort of just look at how you can be using stories in your business to be able to stand out. Right. And so how do we gather those stories? How do we make the connections with the lessons that we might be wanting to make if we’re doing a launch in our business, for example, or a special promotion, how do we pull stories from our life that are relevant to a point that we’re trying to make in a special promotion, in an email marketing series, in a podcast, whatever it is? Right. And this is really about capturing moments that are happening in your day to day life and then leveraging them at some point down the road to tell the story, to drive home a point, to drive home a lesson, all in an effort to separate yourself from the crowd and stand out from the crowd. 

[00:04:02] Speaker1

And so joining me to share his expertize, such a good dude. Jude Charles is a filmmaker and he’s been producing documentaries for entrepreneurs for over 15 years now. He’s produced stories for the likes of Google, Steve Harvey, dozens of other visionary CEOs. And his mission is to lead and empower entrepreneurs to have relentless, unwavering courage. And he’s just an amazing person. And he’s the author of the book Dramatic Demonstration, which is a book that is a roadmap that teaches you how to dig deep, to find compelling stories that no one else knows, and then leverage those stories to grow your business. And so this is part one of my conversation here with Jude. And then in part two, we are going to do well. We’re going to talk more about that here in the episode here today. But we’re going to do a deep dove into where I become the student. And Jude takes me through some exercises in using stories for finding stories to drive points home that you. The hope is that you can take. With me being the example. How you can incorporate that right now into your own business. So a lot of fun stuff ahead. Without further ado, let’s go hang out with you, Charles. Jude. Welcome to the podcast, my friends. How the heck are you today? 

[00:05:20] Speaker2

I am doing great, Rick. Thank you for having me. This is something I’ve been looking forward to for a while now.

[00:05:24] Speaker1

So yeah, I have. I have two. When we got connected, we had a we just jumped on Zoom for a little bit and I was like, Holy cow, why have why have we not connected before now? I felt like we could chat forever. And just going into this right now, for everybody tuning in, this is going to be part one of the conversation here with Jud. We’re going to do a part one today and then next week will be part two and we’ll sort of unveil what part two is going to look like here as we go along in this conversation here. So before we dove into all that, we’re going to be talking about how to stand out from the crowd, how to unveil your true self in this overcrowded space that we all operate from in the online in the online space. And Jud, you’re an expert in this stuff, and I’m ready to take a whole bunch of notes because I think this is something that I for me personally, I feel like I don’t do a very good job of, you know, sharing stories or pulling from stories that can, you know, because like my my buddy Pat Flynn is always talking about storytelling. And whenever we’re chatting, he’s like, oh, well, that would be a story, but my brain doesn’t work like that. So I’m really hoping to kind of start to unveil that, no pun intended here within this conversation here. So as we dove into this, let’s have you introduce yourself to everybody listening right now. Who is Jud Charles? What do you do right now? How you got to where you are right now and and specifically how you help people right now? 

[00:06:54] Speaker2

When you asked me who I am, I think the first thing that comes to mind is that I am curious. I am curious. I have always been curious. At eight years old, I wasn’t the kid that played outside, you know, playing football or basketball. I wasn’t even the kid inside playing video games. Instead, I locked myself in a room. After school. And I would write and I would write these 100 page books of what I thought my future life would look like. So I wrote books like at. 

[00:07:25] Speaker1

Eight years old. 

[00:07:26] Speaker2

At eight years. 

[00:07:27] Speaker1

Old, I’m so impressed. 

[00:07:29] Speaker2

So I wrote books like The Police Life of Ju Charles because I wanted to be a police officer growing up. And I wrote The Basketball Life I’m sorry, the baseball life of Ju Charles and All. I wrote 11 books. 100 page books. But what I ended up becoming is actually a filmmaker. So today, as I talk to you, I am a filmmaker. I have been a filmmaker for over 16 years producing documentaries for entrepreneurs. And what that means is if you think about a biography, which we talked about a little bit off camera, right, like a book, I take that biography of a person’s life and I turn it into visual form through a documentary series. And I’m blessed to do that. That’s what I wake up to do every every single morning. 

[00:08:15] Speaker1

When you say documentary series, most people think about something like super. I don’t know. What comes to my mind is like super formal, if you will, like, all right. We’re sitting down to watch this documentary on Netflix or what have you. Yeah. And there is an aspect to that for sure of the work that you do. Is it more so, though, of like a video series where like shorter videos that make up this overarching documentary? Or is it? Or maybe it’s both. Like one large, if you will, documentary. 

[00:08:49] Speaker2

I would say it’s both because although it’s cut up in a video series, so it’s either it could be anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes per episode per part. But even if you sit down to watch, let’s say it’s a three part series, one through three, it’s all one big story. It’s one cohesive story that takes you on different, different parts of the journey. Stephan George, who’s probably someone that would be known to your audience. The online space is a copywriter, but also an entrepreneur, and I did his docu series, and in the beginning we’re seeing him spending time with his family. We’re also seeing him, his origin story and him teaching about copyrighting. But then as time goes on, you also see the different parts of his life. Part two We talk a lot about the business side. Part three we go on a journey of seeing him having to transition from having live events to having a virtual event and what that’s like, right? So it’s a little bit of everything, but the whole goal is that you get to know who this person is at their core, not just the thing they do. But who they are. And for me, the reason that I love that is because there’s one thing that no one can can duplicate or copy from you. Right? On the surface, if you look at a picture of Stefan George and you look at a picture of Rick Moretti. Both of you are middle or about 3040s. White men have young daughters, married and have young daughters. But what makes you unique is your story. You do not have Stefan’s story, and Stefan doesn’t have your story. It doesn’t make any one of you better, but it makes you different. And when there’s so much noise out there. Well, there’s different people that do the same thing. What they have as different as their story, their journey that have led them to where they are today.

[00:10:41] Speaker1

It brings up so much like how do we. So let’s let’s kind of go from a macro level from the documentaries. Like I look at the documentaries like more micro, like, all right, we’re creating this piece of content to tell the story. Yeah, where do we start to pick out this? Or how do we start to pick out the stories? Because you like what? What just popped up in my mind you said my like what differentiates differentiates Stephan and myself is like our stories, right? And of course. But I’m like, oh, I don’t really have an interesting story, you know, like I was in the corporate world and I, you know, I did that for 13 years and blah, blah, blah. And I start, you know, like I don’t look at it as super. All that different from many other people out there. And I know that a lot of people, like a lot of my students that, for example, that we work with in our accelerator coaching program, a lot of them feel the same way. It’s like, well, you know, like this is what I do, you know, whether it’s like I started this business in the past and now I’m teaching people how to do it, or this is my experience in the classroom or whatever it might be. How do we look at it? Is there sort of like, for lack of a better way to say it, formulaic way to start to pull these stories out? Or is it like, I don’t know, just leave it leave it right there for you. 

[00:12:07] Speaker2

Let’s back up one one. Yeah. Question before that, why do you downplay your actual story? 

[00:12:15] Speaker1

I don’t know. I think that, you know, I just think that because I look at it as like my story is the way that I see it is very similar to so many others out there. You know, out of college I went into I was in the hockey world. I work for the Washington Capitals hockey team. I did that for five years, loved it. But then I just did a complete about face. And this is back when I’m aging myself here, back when AOL was still really was really, really big. And the guy who bought the Capitals way back when, when I was with the team, was one of the very, very, very early people of AOL. And so that’s how I got my introduction to AOL. And I went over to AOL, and that started my world, if you will, of online advertising. And so I spent. 

[00:13:07] Speaker2

Why did you go into advertising? Outside of you had the connection? Yes. Did you go into advertising? Why did you decide to switch from what you were doing with the capital? 

[00:13:17] Speaker1

It was totally fluke. I shouldn’t even say fluke. It wasn’t intentional in any way. It was more of I was fascinated by this whole, quote unquote, Internet thing. And I got to know the the owner’s secretary and, you know, and his assistant here was like just she was so nice and everything. And we just got talking and she said, well, I know, like, she knew this group was hiring. When I started talking to her about like the possibility and that that’s just how it started. It wasn’t like, Ooh, I think I should go into advertising. It was more like, Hey, this a well internet thing is pretty cool. Maybe I’ll go do that. 

[00:14:00] Speaker2

You were at the right place at the right time. Is that. Would you argue that? 

[00:14:05] Speaker1

No, I wouldn’t argue that. No. 

[00:14:07] Speaker2

You asked me what is there a formula to storytelling? And in my opinion, there is not. I think that over time people have complicated storytelling and have told us the different ways to do storytelling. But here’s what a story is. A story is just a recounting of a very specific moment in time. That’s it. So I ask you about like, why did you decide to go from working with the capital to going to work at AOL? Because there was a very specific moment in time where you were at the right place, right time. And we we can begin to tell that story of what happened now. What I would look to do is look at the challenge that happened in that story. If it was, was it really easy to get into working at AOL, was it not? Why did you end up leaving the corporate world? I would even look at because I know a little bit about you. I would even look at after you built your online business for four years. Why did you burn out and the anxiety that it created in the Depression, right? Yeah. 

[00:15:13] Speaker1


[00:15:13] Speaker2

Story is a very specific moment in time. That’s all it is now. Yes. You can add things to this story to make it more engaging and and have a point to the story. But that’s all a story is, is how do you tell me about a very specific moment in time that something happened to you? That makes life interesting. So like and I’ve asked you the question earlier, like, why do you downplay it? Because I did the same thing. I downplayed my own story. 

[00:15:42] Speaker1


[00:15:43] Speaker2

I told you about who I was as a kid, eight years old, writing 100 page books. Right. But I didn’t tell you how I got started in this business. 17 years old, I’m sitting in a TV production classroom May 4th, 2006. And Mrs. Donnelly, my TV production teacher, says to me, Jude, you’re really, really talented at video production. You should start a business. And I am the youngest of ten children. My parents are immigrant parents. They came from the country of Haiti. I’m the youngest of ten. They came over to give us a better life. I was born in America. But to go back home and tell my father, who was a construction worker, my mom who worked at a cherry factory, blue collar workers that I the only one in the family and thinking am thinking about going to start a business was crazy. But what was crazier is May 5th, 2006. The very next day, Mrs. Donnelly walks into the classroom, hands me a yellow envelope, and inside of this yellow envelope is my first set of business cards. And if you’re watching the video, I still have that card to this day. 

[00:16:46] Speaker1

Oh, that’s so cool. 

[00:16:48] Speaker2

In 2006. Mrs. Donnelly, hand me those cards now. I didn’t tell that story for a very long time. It took me maybe seven or eight years while I was in business before I told that story. I’ve been in business six years, but when I started to tell that story that I thought didn’t matter, I’d watch people lean in because what I didn’t what I took for granted was that Mrs. Donnelly handed me business cards. I was just like, Oh, she just I mean, all I needed was business cards and a camera to get started. So, of course, she’s going to have many business cards. I took it for granted that she actually did something that was really big. But teachers don’t normally do this. Yeah, and I think that’s what happens when we think about our own stories. Now, that wasn’t a rags to riches story, right? Like that wasn’t. I slept in my car. 

[00:17:30] Speaker1

For three. 

[00:17:31] Speaker2

Years trying to get my entrepreneurship off the ground instead. It was just a fascinating moment that happened in my life. May five, 2006, my TV production teacher told me, Start a business and handed me business cards. And that’s literally how I got started. That’s it. Nothing fascinating. It’s fascinating, but there’s nothing, like, overly special. Like, you wouldn’t make a whole documentary on just that moment. Sure, sure. But it’s a special moment. And that is what I think we as entrepreneurs downplay, is those special moments that just are real life as they’re happening. I happen to listen to the podcast you did recently, recently as in the time we were recording this about your daughter Maya, not caring what anyone thinks. Right. That’s great. Business lesson. Yeah, she’s dancing in the middle of Target. It’s a very specific moment in time that she’s dancing in the middle of a target. Yeah. Or or the other story that I like that stands out to me was she’s negotiating with you to try something, and she puts up her one finger. I think I remember you saying she puts up her little one finger. Yeah. As a three and a half year old. Right. That’s a very specific moment in time. You’re bringing me into your world about something that Maya did to negotiate with you. Now, can we go deeper into those stories? Absolutely. Can we show more imagery and think and what you were thinking and feeling and what she was saying, how she was acting? Absolutely. But those stories are not to be taken for granted. They’re good stories that can develop more in that you can use in your work, whatever it is that you do. If you’re selling a product, you’re selling a service. Its stories are what help you stand out or help your product stand out even? Because many people will have the same product. 

[00:19:10] Speaker1

Yeah, but. 

[00:19:10] Speaker2

The story is what makes it unique. 

[00:19:14] Speaker1

How do we begin to. Because like, I mean, thank you for that. And like, as you were and as you were telling your story, by the way, and you said, like, as soon as I started to tell a story like this, like people start to lean in, like that’s literally what I was physically doing here. I’m like, you know, like, you know, encapsulated in the story I want to hear more about because I’m thinking like, wow, like, to your point, what you said, dude, about your about Mrs. Donnelly is like. Mrs. Donnelly. 

[00:19:40] Speaker2

Right? Mrs. Donnelly. 

[00:19:41] Speaker1

Yeah. Mrs. Donnelly. Like who does that? You know, like who brings you business cards? Like, I never had a teacher do that. That’s pretty cool. But like, the way that you tell us, by the way, not surprisingly, you’re a very good storyteller. That’s one thing that my buddy Pat Flynn and I often talk about where I think he’s a good storyteller as well. And I’m like, I don’t feel like I’m a good storyteller. But he challenged me on that to just like, you know, just like you have, which I appreciate. And I think that as we’re talking, it’s just like the more that you do this, the better that you the better story that you that you’re able to tell and how you tell it. One thing that does come up for me in this is that connecting these types of stories with whatever’s relevant right now, with whatever we’re talking about, with releasing a new course or I’m doing a special promo for my coaching program or whatever it might be. We can think of these stories like like I just did, like, you know, going to AOL from the Capitals. But I look at that and I’m like, it’s not really relevant for something right now. How do we start to connect those dots? Or if we’re like, you know, we’re working on this or we have this coming up? Is it a is it a case of like mining our like story bank, if you will, to come up with those different stories? What does that look like?

[00:21:09] Speaker2

I love that you said the word story bank, because that’s exactly what it is. I forget when I started it, but I have a book that I call my story bank and literally there are stories that happen every single day. We as human beings are storytellers. And that’s why I say I feel like people have complicated storytelling is like there’s a right and wrong way to do it. And sure there is in business, but. We’re naturally storytellers. When Rick, you get home from work, well, you work from home. But if you. 

[00:21:38] Speaker1

When I open the door and go upstairs. 

[00:21:40] Speaker2

Open the door and go upstairs. And your wife asks you, how was your day? Or She knows you’re in a big launch. And she’s just wondering how it was. You go into telling a story about a very specific moment in time. Well, the way that I use my story bag is kind of like a journal, but I will write out things that happened throughout the day. I was writing to my newsletter the other day and I’m in a series called Are You Relentless right Now? And it’s a story about me working with a client. And basically it’s kind of like one of those tale of two entrepreneurs. And there’s a social media manager who’s working with the same client, and I’m working with the client as well. And the social media manager in a meeting tells the client, How can you make it easier for me to work with you? Because the client is hard to pin down and like get on her calendar. And so the client says, Look, you don’t have to try to make it. I’m not going to make it easier for you. You have to demand it of me. And she uses me as an example of how I demand the time that I’m filming this docu series with her. 

[00:22:40] Speaker2

And I will ask her assistant, Hey, when can I come in and film? And then she would say, Well, I don’t have time. And the system will say, Well, Judi’s coming anyway, because Jews not taking no for an answer. And she kind of gives that example, right? So that was part one. I tell the story. I actually showed the video because I luckily got that on camera. But part two, I’m continuing the story and I’m continuing on. Okay, what did I do specifically to create this experience with this client to lead the client to success? And I start the newsletter with this story that happened in 2019. I think it was I’m on a plane and I’m just coming from a marketing conference. I pull out my laptop to take down some notes because I thought of a great new idea that I wanted to implement. Well, 15 minutes into this, the pilot comes on and he’s like, hey, we need to fasten your seatbelts. It’s going to be a very bumpy ride. Sure. Lo and behold, we get into a very bumpy ride. The guy sitting next to me is holding on to his arm chairs. His face has turned red and he looks like he’s about to pass out. 

[00:23:39] Speaker1

The lady. That’s me, by the way, dude. 

[00:23:43] Speaker2

The lady in the aisle. Fast asleep on a bumpy ride. The people sitting behind me. There’s a group of people sitting behind me watching the NCAA basketball championship. We’re all on the same plane, experiencing the same bumpy ride, but having different experience. I use that story to lead back into this story about me and the social media manager working. We’re working with the same client, having the same problems, the same bumpy ride, but having a completely different experience. So when you ask me, like, how do you like. Yes, it’s the story bank. But I went through that whole journey just now with you. Yeah. Because the story of what happened in 2019 was literally in my story bank that I just pulled out because I was like, How am I going to bring this point to life for people? Because that’s the way that I bring a point. Home. Is there a story? I think that I’ve been listening to some of your content over over time. I’ve known who you are for a long time. What you are is a great teacher. You’re an excellent teacher. I don’t think I’m that. I don’t think I’m a great salesman either, or great at marketing, but what I’m excellent at is storytelling, and that’s what I use as my superpower to drive home the points, no matter if I’m on a podcast with you, if I’m writing a newsletter, if I’m doing a docu series. 

[00:25:05] Speaker2

Storytelling is my secret sauce, and I think it can be everyone’s secret sauce, right? You’re passionate and you tell great stories. The one thing that we could tweak is how much you spend time in that story writing. So you asked me like, how do you do it? Yes. The story bank is one story bank is how you bring the point home. But these or not even how you bring it home, it’s how you find the stories to tell. But the second thing is, what is the lesson you want to teach? So just like you did on that podcast, three business lessons you learn from Maya. You knew the lessons you kind of wanted to teach. Now you had to. I’m assuming the way that you thought about it, you knew the lessons you wanted to teach and you had to think about what’s the moment that happened with Maya? Or you thought about the moment that happened with Maya. And then what’s the lesson you learned? There’s no wrong way to do that. 

[00:25:54] Speaker1

Mm hmm. 

[00:25:55] Speaker2

The point is, story has to have a point. It has to have a lesson that you’re teaching from the story. It’s not just, oh, let me tell this story for fun. It’s how do I bring this lesson after I tell the story? How do I teach the lesson behind it?

[00:26:11] Speaker1

It’s so interesting you bring that up because like, well, I want to come back to the original point I was going to say, but just as you said, that this will sometimes I don’t always do this, but I will sometimes go back and like like today, for example, we’re recording this on a Wednesday. So Wednesday’s episode came out this morning and I was on the way back from dropping Maya off at preschool. And I, my, my podcast, the new episode popped up in, in the feed. And so I was like, and I couldn’t, I could see the title, but I couldn’t remember which like what was like all I could see was how he did it, you know? And then I was like, Wait, which one is that one? So I hit play and. I went into talking about. How I. Recently learned how to create a honey cinnamon latte. My coffee machine at home. And as I was telling it, I’m sitting there listening to it cringing. I was like, This is completely irrelevant. I had no point to it. It was fresh in my mind because I’d literally just made one. But to your point, Judi said, there needs to be a lesson here or there needs to be connecting. And I’m like, Yeah, that story was completely irrelevant to anything that I. 

[00:27:29] Speaker2

Would drive home. There was no point at all to the episode at all. Like it wasn’t connected. 

[00:27:34] Speaker1

Well to the it wasn’t connected that the episode it was literally, you know, here’s, here’s really where it was coming from. I think that I don’t again, I’m just being fully transparent and authentic with both you and everybody listening. I don’t think I share enough about like myself on this podcast. And this is my biggest platform. It’s a big platform. But so like most people know that I’m, I love coffee and I’m a total coffee snob about it. I think that was sort of the reason that I did it. I was just like to give a little glimpse into, Hey, this is what I just did, and it was what I discovered. But it was completely irrelevant to the rest of the episode. And I literally looked down at like, Where are we with the time of the episode? Yeah. And I’m like, cringing. I’m like, Wow, that was two and a half minutes into the episode of Just Nonsense. So anyway, all that to say is how do we start to train ourselves, if you will, because you’re talking about that instance in 2019 on a flight where it’s going to get bumpy. And I’m like, Yeah, like I’m picturing it in my mind. I can totally see that. And how you said like the scenario with the social media manager and I’m like, I love that like total connection. How do we start to train ourselves to or is it is that the right way to think about it, to be able to see those points, to see those as they come up in our day to day life like, ooh, this could be something. But you’re not, like, captured. You’re not like, Oh, I can use this later on. You’re just more keeping track of what’s going on in your life. 

[00:29:23] Speaker2

Yeah, I think. So how do I look at it when I’m writing down these stories in my story bank? I or even because another way to do this, if you’re not always available to sit down and write, is you take a picture on your phone about the moment that’s happening. So I went to the grocery store not that long ago, maybe three months ago, something like that, and never in a million years where I think I need to jump out of a car and, like, try to save a person’s life. Later. Get out of my car. I’m walking into the getting ready to walk into the grocery store. And to my left, I hear a loud boom. When I look to my left, I immediately start running because. I can’t. And I can’t even script this right? Like this is real life. A Tesla car is on top of another car. Wait. So that’s exactly. A Tesla car is on top of another car. I’m going to try to look up the picture while we were talking because I took a picture of it. And that’s what made me think of the story because I didn’t write this story down. But it’s a moment that happened. A moment in time. Yeah, I ran over. Luckily, everyone was safe. What I didn’t know is the car that there were two cars that this lady had hit and there was one. 

[00:30:37] Speaker2

She was completely on top of the other car that she was kind of leaning on. And in that other car that she was leaning on or the car was leaning on, the Tesla car was leaning on. There were three people inside. And I did not know that I’m calling 911. This lady is trying to climb out of her car and I’m like, don’t move because we don’t know what’s going to happen if you move. And luckily I said 

that because there were like three people stuck inside of a car. But I took a picture of that moment, obviously, after I called nine Wind and Fire Department got there and all of that. I took a picture of that moment because I do use that story now. I use it in different ways. I use it I think one time I’ve told the stories. You don’t want to get stuck. You don’t want to get stuck in the wrong place or something like that. I forget the other way I’ve used it. But the point is the story bank, whether it’s in your phone or on in a journal. I don’t ever write it down or take a picture thinking of how do I use this story? 

[00:31:32] Speaker1

Sure, sure. 

[00:31:33] Speaker2

Instead, I just I just document. And the reason I love calling it a bank is because when you put a deposit in, that’s the only way to draw money. So you’ve got to deposit the stories in order to even know what to pull out later on. When I first started the story bank, I remembered, and this is why I still take pictures. Now, what I remember doing, because I didn’t know how I would like do this story bank. I knew it was a cool idea, but I was like, How am I going to fill up this book is I would actually go back and look at my phone. I’m grateful that I’m born in a generation. In the era that I took pictures. Yeah, things happening as they were happening. And that’s how I’ve used it to. My benefit is sometimes I don’t even remember the things that happened. But I can go back to it later on and look at, okay, what is the lesson I’m looking to teach her? Is there a story in this book, in this bank that I can withdraw from to teach the story? I didn’t know I would need the story of being on a plane, having the same experience, no same going in the same direction, but having a different experience.

[00:32:31] Speaker2

I think that’s how I even wrote it in the book. We’re all going in the same direction. Same. We’re feeling the same thing, but having a different experience. And the way I wrote the lesson in the book was Turbulence is an illusion. That’s not how I looked at it at all when I went to tell this story about my mind and the social media manager. So I think the point is. You deposit the stories in order to later on withdraw. But yes, it does take some time to figure out how am I going to drive the point home? Where is the point? Is there a good point to make in this? Does this illustrate the point that I’m trying to make? The point I was looking to make is that there’s not really a difference between me and the social media manager. It was just I chose to have a different experience with a client. I chose to feel something different. 

[00:33:18] Speaker1


[00:33:20] Speaker2

That was it. 

[00:33:21] Speaker1

Do you like. How do you organize? Those moments in time that your cap that you’re documenting like are you. When you say you wrote it down, like are you physically writing it in a book or are you putting it into like notion or whatever it is? Like, how do you. 

[00:33:40] Speaker2

Yeah, I think I would love to put in a notion. I’m glad to use notion to because I’m fascinated with notion. I love. 

[00:33:45] Speaker1

Notion. I am, too. 

[00:33:48] Speaker2

I don’t. I think so. There’s two things, three things that I do when I’m doing it in the story bank. I’ll write a heading, some kind of heading just so I can remember if I need to go back to it. Like I mentioned with this story, the airplane story was the turbulence. That was the headline. I write the story and then I try to think of a lesson and the lesson. Like I said at that time, the lesson was Turbulence is an illusion. You decide what to pay attention to. And and so the three things is headline story lesson. And then I go back and look at it. I don’t organize it in any other way just than that. I think with notion, I probably could organize it a little bit better. But again, I don’t want to like complicate it because I just don’t know how I’m going to use this story. Yeah, but if you have the story deposit, especially when you’re working with a team, let’s say you’re handing the story over to a copywriter or the team is thinking about how do we promote this launch? You guys can literally brainstorm. You can go through your story bank now and the team can now tell you, Oh, that’s a great angle. I can know how to how to take that in this game or I know how to take that in this direction, but you have to have it first. And I think for me, I think I found it hard, too, to always like think of a story on the spot. But if I have the bank, I’m withdrawing from that bank. Yeah. And again, it makes it easier for my team to sure to understand where are we going with this? Because sometimes if I’m in a meeting with my team or a client, I do kind of go through my bank in my head trying to think of, okay, this client isn’t getting the point. How do I tell the story to get the point? 

[00:35:25] Speaker1

Are you using story? And I would assume the answer is yes. But just to clarify here, are you using story in pretty much. Everything that you’re doing in terms of the business, in terms of working with a client or whatever to drive home a point. 

[00:35:38] Speaker2

Yes, every time. 

[00:35:40] Speaker1

Every time. I think this is a great lesson for us is like, look, if we’re you know, if we’re trying to I mean, I don’t think I will ever think about the I love how like again I’m going back to because it sticks with me because I’m that I’m I I’m that guy gripping the the arm rails really, really tight. And I never used to be a bad flier, but I had a bad experience. I remember exactly flying into I was in a seven, seven, seven flying into Washington Dulles Airport and it was terrible. But anyway. 

[00:36:13] Speaker2

No, no. Tell me the story. Tell me the story. 

[00:36:16] Speaker1

Yeah, we were flying. My wife and I were flying overseas and we were flying from the West Coast here. And we got really close to Dulles and then like really bad weather or something like that and just hit some really bad turbulence and scared the crap out of me. And I wasn’t I was never a bad, quote unquote, bad flier. You know, did you think. 

[00:36:39] Speaker2

You were going to die that day or something? 

[00:36:41] Speaker1

No, I don’t think so. But I was I was, like legitimately scared. Like for Amy, my wife, it doesn’t bother her at all. But, you know, yeah, it really bothered me that and it’s from ever since that day. Like it I get freaked out with with any kind of turbulence or if they come on and say, buckle up. It’s about to get bumpy. Like. Like my heart starts like. Oh, man.

[00:37:09] Speaker2

What? I love the way that you tell stories, though, is that you do get very specific. You said seven, seven, seven flying into Dulles. And that’s why I immediately was like, no, tell me the story. Yeah, because you get the one thing that people need to remember about storytelling. There’s a difference between making a statement that I was afraid of flying on planes, or I’ve never been the type to be afraid of flying on planes. 

[00:37:29] Speaker1


[00:37:30] Speaker2

There’s a difference between that statement and then going into a story with there’s this very specific moment in time. I was on a 777 flying into Dulles Airport. 

[00:37:39] Speaker1


[00:37:40] Speaker2

You know, like there’s there’s that specificity to it. When I tell the story, Mrs. Donnelly handed me my first set of business cards. It was in a yellow envelope. I could have left that out, but I wanted you to see the imagery of that. Yeah. So, anyway, I just wanted to show you, like, there’s ways that you tell stories that’s very, very specific. Yeah, actually makes you a good storyteller, right? Well, it’s just what you probably struggle with is because you mentioned it with the making the latte is bringing home the point that’s connecting. 

[00:38:08] Speaker1

It to. 

[00:38:10] Speaker2

Connecting it to the the episode or connecting it to whatever. Yeah. We talked about this the very first time we you and I talked, I did a presentation for the copywriter club in real life conference where I used a Jenga set. 

[00:38:24] Speaker1

It’s so good. Yeah. 

[00:38:26] Speaker2

The Jenga set by itself would mean nothing without the story that I’m telling with it. And the story that I’m telling with it is that I burnt out into that in 2020, and I had to learn how to remove things from my life. I had to learn how to subtract. And it was hard for me because I was great at just doing a lot of things. But with a Jenga set, you realize when you subtract things from the Jenga set, you know, everyone’s played Jenga. So when you subtract, when you pull a piece out, you put it back on top. Well, my. Theory was, what if I don’t put it back on top? I just remove it altogether. Which you realize is the more pieces you remove. The structure still holds up. But again, that idea is a great idea. It would mean nothing without the story. I threw pieces out. I had written down on the Jenga set certain pieces, I had written words and let’s say hypothetically it was listened to stop listening to so many podcasts. While I would throw the piece out to. 

[00:39:28] Speaker1

This one dude. Except for this. 

[00:39:30] Speaker2

One. Except for this. 

[00:39:31] Speaker1


[00:39:32] Speaker2

I would ask the audience, Hey, who needs to stop listening to so many podcasts? And then they raise their hand. I throw the piece out to them. Afterward in the Facebook group, I asked people in the Facebook group, hey, who still has their pieces? I think I might have thrown out ten pieces. I forget at this point, but people still have their pieces and they had it right in front of their laptop or their computer at home or whatever it is that they use. In my opinion, I didn’t ask this, but in my opinion that piece wouldn’t have so much weight. They wouldn’t still have the peace if I didn’t tell the story that came with the peace. 

[00:40:07] Speaker1


[00:40:09] Speaker2

The piece was just what drove it home. That was the lesson. The story is what made it matter. That’s what made people care about the piece. And so again, when I talk about a product or service or even Rick, when you’re doing a launch, you’re like, why should people care? Why should someone buy into this? Why? How are you going to stand out again among all the other courses or whatever it is that you’re selling? It’s the story. Right. The reason that, Rick, you said let’s do a part one and part two. It’s the story. Yeah. There’s other storytellers out there. There’s other people that do what I do, theoretically. But she knew my story before we ever got here. And that’s what that’s what made the difference.

[00:40:54] Speaker1

How are we as entrepreneurs using everything we’re talking about here to? Because one of the notes I took down from our previous conversation before recording was like unveiling our true self, which can allow us to separate ourselves and stand out from the crowd of all the noise and the online space. How do we leverage what we’re talking about here in terms of storytelling to unveil our true self? 

[00:41:18] Speaker2

You want to give someone a three dimensional view into who you are as a person, as a human being. Outside of the thing that you do at the beginning of this podcast, if you paid attention. Rick. You asked me. Jude, let’s just start with. Who are you? 

[00:41:34] Speaker1

Is it curious? 

[00:41:35] Speaker2

Yep. Curious? I didn’t tell you I was a filmmaker. I didn’t tell you that. And sometimes I will start that way. I will tell you. Hey, I’m Jude Charles from such and such. Whatever. Right. I’ll start it that way. How do you allow someone to come into your world three dimensionally as you start to let them know who you are? The way you think. What you like to do. And it’s the know like and trust bridge that we’re beginning to build. Right. So you talk about Maya and that you have a daughter, you talk about Amy, your wife, you talk about making coffee in the morning. Those are small things that get us into your world. Sure. But just like you did with me on the first call, it wasn’t just. I told you. I burnt out and. Whatever. You went deeper and it was just like, Well, what did you do to change? Like, how did you come away from burnout? What do you what does your schedule look like now? I told you how my schedule is. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. That is the only time I work now. I take four days off throughout the week and we talked about that. We went deeper into that that’s not heard of. But I also wasn’t shy in saying like, Look, Rick, it’s still hard for me. 

[00:42:43] Speaker2

Like I’m technically on a mini vacation recording this podcast. Like it’s still hard for me not to work. I think it’s those like. In short, is the vulnerability of who you really are. And not being afraid that someone would judge you based on who you are. I’m not telling you. I worked Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday for fun or to try to gloat about. I work a limited schedule. Sure, I tell you that because I had to learn the hard way. I needed to work a limited schedule. And I’m still going through that hard way of learning to work a limited schedule. So I think it’s the vulnerability of being true to who you are. It’s just, who are you? You you talked about in that episode three business ideas that Maya has taught you. You talked about how sometimes you don’t get it right, like you don’t think you’re the greatest dad in the world. You’re still learning you even. I like that. You even said you’re not going to push her to be an entrepreneur. You want her to be whatever she wants to be. Yeah. Yeah. It’s small things like that. That. Get us to know who Rick is. But I think there’s a vulnerability aspect to that that you bring me into the world of. 

[00:43:54] Speaker2

You don’t think you’re the best, dad. Why not? There was a day that there was something that happened or because we all don’t have perfect days. And I think. With social media, with marketing in general, we try to paint a perfect picture and yeah, I just let go of that years ago. I let go of the idea that I’m going to paint a perfect picture, and that’s why I’m vocal about burnout. Mm hmm. Am I successful at what I do in my career? Absolutely. And I’m grateful for that. But I also know I’m not perfect. And if I can tell someone else that story, if I can let them into my world. My mission and vision is to lead and empower entrepreneurs that have relentless courage. The only way to do that is continue to be vulnerable and to be real about what’s going on in my life and trust that I will attract the right people to me and I will repel the people that don’t want that don’t want to hear what I have to say. To me, that’s how you are able to be your true self is if you’re willing to be vulnerable about what’s happening in your life. 

[00:44:51] Speaker1

Where do you balance that? Right there. I’m so glad you bring that up, but I had no idea you’re going to bring that up. How do you balance? Showing the vulnerable vulnerability and where you’re at with that vulnerability without having a quote unquote, this is how you came out, the other side of it. Does that make sense? Like, I’m struggling with this as. 

[00:45:13] Speaker2

The story isn’t finished, is what you’re saying the story isn’t finished. 

[00:45:16] Speaker1

Right. Because, you know, like, I mean, talk about like, what’s what what I’ve always I mean, just to be honest, like what I’ve always been told over the years of being I’ve been in the online space now for a long time, but it’s like, don’t just share like what you’re going through in that moment and like, stop, right? Because this is literally I’ve been told this so many times because no one wants to hear the woe is me story. They want to hear the woe is me story with how you are either how you came through it or what you are doing to come through it. What’s your thought on that? 

[00:45:54] Speaker2

Yeah, I do. I do think. Again, I always think of story as there’s a lesson at the end. So there is. Even if you’re not. The story isn’t done right or you aren’t you haven’t hit the promised land, so to speak. Sure. What are you. What? What is currently going on? The journey to make it better. When you watch a sitcom or TV show. Yeah. When you watch a TV show or you’re watching a movie series or something like that. Right. Like they leave you on a cliffhanger, but they they always solve what’s going on in the story in that moment. So I can’t think of The Avengers movies now, but like The Avengers movies have done that right? Like they start with part one and then. They’ll solve. What’s the biggest problem in part one? But then they leave you on a cliffhanger to let you know there’s a part two coming, right?

[00:46:40] Speaker1


[00:46:40] Speaker2

I think even if you’re still in the middle of the story. You share what you’re doing in that moment. So like I mentioned, I’m still going through burnout, but I talked about the Jenga set and that’s just something I had to learn how to remove and subtract things from my life. It doesn’t mean I’m past an over burnout, but. Yeah. It’s helped me along the way. And maybe it can help you, too. Maybe he can help you before you even get to burnout. Right. And that is so. Yes, there’s always a lesson. And again, that’s that goes back to the point we were making earlier. There’s always a lesson. There’s never just telling a story just to tell a story because then the story doesn’t get remembered like it’s a cool, funny story. But then like and I’m thinking when I say cool and funny story, I’m thinking of you making the latte. It’s a cool and funny story, but then it isn’t tied to the point of the episode, and now I’ve forgotten it. But if you had started the episode with a latte, you went into whatever the person that you interviewed and then you ended the episode coming back to the latte then. Now, the next time someone sees you, there’s that story that they tell about you making the latte. Because now they remembered it not just because you told the story, but because the lesson that the to the lesson that the story taught. I remember when I told the story with the story I was telling you about with the airplane and. The social media manager. I got emails back from people stating what they understood. From what I wrote in the lesson that they took away is it’s my responsibility to lead the client. And the person said, I would have never looked at it that way. I would have actually taken the social media, social media managers side instead of. Thinking of the way that you thought about it, which is I’m not going to take no for an answer. I’m going to demand it of her. 

[00:48:23] Speaker1


[00:48:25] Speaker2

And so but that only happened because I told the story. If I would have just said, Hey, it’s important to lead your client through success, don’t take no for an answer. They’d be like, Okay, great, Jude. And that brings me to a point that I don’t get to say often, but I want to say it here is that value. Which the way that we understand value today, you know, you’re always hearing give value, give value, give value. The way we understand value today is give new ideas. Give. Tell people about tactics that they don’t know about. Tell them the secret thing. In my opinion, that’s not value. The value is the story. Because if I tell you I told you, just like I said, if I told you, hey, you should lead your client to success and you don’t take no for an answer, that means nothing to you. But the fact that you get to see this story and hear this story of this woman and me going through the same experience or same working with the same client, but having a different experience, then it’s imbedded in your mind, Oh, this is what’s going to happen. If I lead my client and I don’t take no for an answer. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So in my opinion. Storytelling is what is the way that you give value? Many people who start out their careers are thinking they hear this idea give value, get value or build a relationship. And they’re like, How am I going to do that? Because the way you do that in friendship is not the way you’re going to do it in business. One of the ways you do that is through storytelling. You share who you are, what journey you’re on, wherever you are in that journey. And. Watch the deep connection happen. 

[00:49:58] Speaker1

Hmm. So many lessons here. I’m almost kind of. I’m almost thinking of, like, calling this episode, like, the master class of storytelling or something like that. 

[00:50:06] Speaker2

To be honest, I don’t think we’ll get to part two today. Here’s here’s what I want to do. And you tell me what you think. Yeah. Actually want to listen to this episode. You’re talking about the latte thing. Let’s make it a real I think the way we make that a real live case study like we were talking about doing, it’s taking that episode and breaking it apart. And you can tell me if you want to do that. We could do the other way we talked about. But I want to break that episode apart to show how you find the lesson. And what? The episode is about and how you could still tell that story. What do you think about that? 

[00:50:39] Speaker1

Let’s do that. Yeah. So. So just to let people know what. What Jude and I had come up with going into this episode here, we knew we were going to do a part one and part two. Part one was what we’ve just shared with talked about here today, how to use storytelling to separate yourself and to tell your own story. Basically, to stand out from the crowd, unveil your true self, how to find the stories in your life that are happening all the time, and to make sure that we have a lesson or to connect to the story and to use a story to drive home, if you will, different points and different lessons that that you’re bringing up in the business. So part two, it was is going to be a personal class, if you will, where just what Jude was talking about, how since I don’t feel like like I’ve shared here today, that I don’t do a very good job of telling stories or pulling stories that are relevant. We’re going to do it in sort of real time, if you will, here, a podcast episode where Jude unpacks this for me. And so in the hopes that you can find a ton of value in you doing this with me, and so that you can think about that from your own perspective and your own business and how to leverage what you’re learning here today, both here in part one and part two coming up for your own business. So. Let’s do that. Dude, let’s, let’s we’ll we’ll wrap this up here. Yeah, we will schedule part two. And I’m embarrassed to have you go back and listen to that. You know, listen to the to the to the, you know, my honey cinnamon latte, little diatribe for the first 3 minutes of an episode. That’s completely irrelevant. And we’ll go from there. Sound good?

[00:52:36] Speaker2

That’s amazing. This is going to be fun. And unlike Rick said, the lesson is how do you do this for yourself? Right. Because I think you asked the very important question is. You exist in that towards the middle of this conversation, which you said, like, how do you it’s one thing to know you have a story, but like how do you connect it? Yeah, how do you connect it to whatever it is you’re working on, a launch, a product, whatever it is. And that’s what I will look to do when I listen to this episode. I will listen to how he tells the cinnamon story and see if there is maybe there is a way to connect it, maybe there isn’t. But if there isn’t, let’s what we’ll also do is we’ll find another story that you could have told in order to the point that you made. Because, again, I think that is a great point. Storytelling is you’re able to use it in everything, even when you’re opening up a podcast. Yeah. Or a podcast episode. And I want to show that. I want to show like, okay, if we’re brainstorming storytelling and we want to use it in every part of our lives, how do we get better at quickly coming up with a story to tell that drives home the point of what this podcast is all about, what this episode is all about, how do we drive home the point? We’ll do that with this one and I love it. And then we’ll do it. We’ll probably even do it with with our episode to see. Okay, come up with the story for our episode. 

[00:53:48] Speaker1

Let’s do it. I love it. So I want to make sure that people can connect with you. Dude, you have a book, what’s your website? How can they get on your email list so they can read your emails that you’re sending out with these stories, etc.? What are all what are all the things? 

[00:54:03] Speaker2

Best place to connect with me is my newsletter called The Dramatic Leverage Newsletter. That is where I teach about the business side of storytelling. So it’s exactly what Rick is asking me How do you take a story and then either make money from it or get engagement from it, or whatever it is? That is the dramatic leverage newsletter. Jud Charles Dot, CEO, Forward Slash Newsletter. That’s the best place to connect with me because that’s where I also respond. If you reply to that newsletter, I will respond. We’ll have a whole conversation going. It’s not just me writing Into the Abyss and hoping you read it. It’s really, I want to have conversations. I want to build deep relationships. So Jud Charles, that SEO for slash newsletter, I’m sure Rick and his team will put it in the show notes. Yep, but that’s the best place to connect with me and learn more about everything we’re talking about. 

[00:54:50] Speaker1

And what’s your book? Because I know that you do have it on your site, but let’s yeah, let’s talk about that. 

[00:54:54] Speaker2

For a second is the dramatic demonstration. So going from not just telling your story, but showing your story to attract the right client, the right audience. That book is also available through that newsletter. And so that’s the best way to get it. But there’s also another link to Charles that CO Ford’s book and that’s the other place to get it. But that’s where I teach all about now that is where dramatic leverage newsletters the business side of storytelling dramatic demonstration is the pretty much the art of storytelling. How do you bring this story to life in a way that’s engaging and again, attracting the right people, repelling people you don’t want? Yeah, that is the way to get that book. 

[00:55:34] Speaker1

I love it. You all. I’ll link everything up, as Jude said for his newsletter, for his website, for his book in the show notes for today’s episode. Rick Forward Slash Podcast. Go over there, check it out and we’ll link everything up there. Jude Thank you, my man. I appreciate it. And I’m already nervous. Slash excited for for part two I’ll. 

[00:55:57] Speaker2

Give you a little bit more time so. 

[00:55:58] Speaker1

I know I’ll prepare for it now. I’m ready. 

[00:56:02] Speaker2

It should be fun. It should be fun. 

[00:56:04] Speaker1

Yeah. All right, Ben. Thanks, Jude. We’ll. We’ll talk to you soon. That’s right. We are going to do a part two of my interview here with Jude, where he’s going to use me as the student. Use real life examples for me to how to tell better stories, how I can tell better stories, and how to leverage them to drive points home. With the lessons I’m trying to teach and the value that I’m trying to provide you. And the goal here is to through me, you can take what you’re learning through these conversations and how Jude is guiding me so that you can take what you’re learning here and incorporate it into your own business and tell your own stories and where to find your stories for your own business so that you can stand out from the crowd in your very likely noisy space. So thank you, my friend, for tuning in today. Super appreciate you as always. If you’ve not already left a rating review for the show over on Apple Podcasts, super appreciated. Make sure to hit that subscribe button there on whatever platform that you’re listening to the show here. Thank you in advance for doing that again. It’s always appreciated and super helpful for the show. So until next time, my friend in part two here with Jude, a lot of fun coming your way and continuing here with you, Charles. Until then, be well, my friend. Talk to you soon.

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